In case you who are reading this may not know, a Michael Jackson biopic just premiered a widespread release on the 24th of April. i happened to see it on the 23rd, and immediately recorded a podcast episode (plus this) with the first thoughts that came into my head.
jesse took me to see it- he had far more of an interest than myself in wanting to see it. He also wanted to record an episode of our first impressions. i reluctantly went, as (a. i do not follow much of what the MJ estate does (and everything i’ve heard of them doing sounds exploitative), and (b. i preemptively knew i was not going to like this movie, because it would not be a serious examination of MJ as a person.
i haven’t read many reviews in depth; the only one i read however, described it as a “wax museum.” The general sentiment has been split between what i estimate are the more hardcore of MJ fans and appreciators, and film critics and connoisseurs. As a person who appreciates MJ more from a philosophical/sociopolitical perspective (though i like his music as well); i am also a person who is big into cinema.
i absolutely loathe this movie.
As a person who has every J5/Jacksons/MJ album on vinyl, has a couple of MJ-related tattoos, and who has poured months and hours of research (and self-discovery) into writing a book on (and not about) MJ (which i stopped writing upon news of his passing out of respect), i can assuredly tell you that i loathe this movie.
As i mentioned above, the sentiments regarding this movie have been viewed as incredibly binary- either you are an MJ fan and are inclined to unconditionally love it, or you are a film critic inclined to hate on it. Like all of the characters in the movie, there can never be nuance.
People who pointed out issues with inconsistencies and plot holes have been met with arguments that they are more interested in seeing a movie about the downfall of a man, than in celebrating him. i would argue that an erasure of MJ’s contradictions do a disservice to him, and essentially make him into a caricature.
i loathe this movie, because i thought it absolutely did a disservice to Michael Jackson as a person.
i don’t think it was the estate’s intention to honor Michael as a person. For them, Michael Jackson is one thing: intellectual property- a product. He’s no longer alive in the physical realm, so it’s not necessary to humanize him, or address any contradictions that would dispel the myth of the idealized, eternal wunderkind. They would never dare to tarnish the brand.
One of the only reviews i’ve read in full succinctly stated, “It’s not guided by creative choices but by the incentives of its various stakeholders.”
Lionsgate
i have not gotten far, but in my search for some semblance of balance regarding reviews, in my rare moment of comment writing on youtube, i wrote a response to someone who identified, if i’m not mistaken, as an historian of MJ (and of 90s R&B in particular). This person fascinated me, because it was refreshing to see someone who was into research (versus being an uncritical fan).
While they did have some mild critiques, they generally loved the movie. As a person who has also been called an MJ historian due to the work i’ve done on the now shelved book- though i personally don’t consider myself to be one- i wanted to give a perspective of someone who held a different viewpoint. i understood and accepted that i am most likely a minority in this perspective.
Of course, when i went to post the comment, it got rejected. My guess is that it went past the number of characters you can post, but i have a mini joke which states that my post got flagged by fans, and it automatically got rejected.
After the posting failure, i immediately decided to utilize it as a blog post:
i think i may be one of the only folks who appreciates MJ, but thought this movie was abysmal. The music aspect was great (obviously), but personally, that’s not a thing which compels me to watch a film. This biopic is the reason i don’t watch Hollywood produced movies with this type of budget. It was all flash, and no substance. The character development was little to nil. Everyone to me was presented as a caricature, with very little nuance. The majority of the movie centered around MJ and Bill Bray (the only person i felt who was convincingly cast, regarding looks. To me, Jaafar looked just like his father as opposed to his uncle, except for the ‘Bad’ segments). i kept wanting to see Jaafar play some bass for half the movie. Bray was indeed MJ’s security in real life, but was portrayed more as a guardian angel (looking after ‘man child’ MJ) in the movie.
Speaking of the siblings… save for LaToya, they felt like an afterthought. Their role in Michael’s life felt tertiary to me. The casting director obviously could not find anyone who looked AT ALL like the siblings, because chile… i don’t think you necessarily need to have a spitting image of someone, but i didn’t find anyone embodying any of these characters. The brothers felt like NPCs, as the kids today say. Angela Bassett didn’t look like Katherine Jackson, but she embodied her character enough where you ended up thinking, ‘I see it’. i did not get Katherine from Nia Long at all. She felt too timid of a character. i feel someone like Jennifer Lewis would have been powerful. And Colman Domingo (with the pancake makeup and weird prosthetic) ended up looking like Eriq LaSalle in Coming To America, or Stoney Jackson… And even if Janet or Rebbie declined for their likenesses to be in the movie, the absolute erasure of them was strange.
How on earth are you going to show a scene of them singing ‘Big Boy’, but not include mention of Steeltown records, or show any sort of regional exposure they got, before going to Motown?
With LaToya, the film could have touched upon (as a vehicle for exploring MJ coming into his own as a writer) him penning ‘Nighttime Lover’ for her. They also didn’t reference the apartment they shared together in NYC… which of course was part of the ‘Wiz’ and Studio 54 era.
The CGI animals were too much for me to take, as were the AI audience scenes. i was looking for a misspelled sign.
The Pepsi scene was weak, because it telegraphed too hard. Also, if you look at the actual film of the incident, Michael didn’t necessarily feel the flames initially. He ran down the stairs and danced around without incident, then felt something- then had a gang of folks come at him to help, and extinguish the fire. The Dodgers Stadium scene also wasn’t great, because every video of that tour i’ve seen, MJ was pretty pissed off. There was a particular aggression in his performance. He also wasn’t focused on looking at his father that hard when he announced that it was to be his last show with his brothers. Again, that scene was ‘dramatic license’ gone bad. Sometimes, it’s okay to just let things happen, as opposed to always forcefully handing it to the audience.
Something that would have fared well as a plot point regarding the journey of MJ showing independence, is touching on the Victory lottery controversy, MJ’s antagonism toward Don King, and the brothers’ appearance at Tavern On The Green (inspired by the letter MJ received from a girl named LaDonna), where he announced the cessation of the ticket lottery.
The direction the movie decided to go was to look at MJ’s journey becoming independent of his father, and not much else. i don’t think that would be a bad direction to take- if that was the focus. They could have, again, fleshed this out with more character development. But because they sold the movie as ‘The Man, The Myth, The Legend- Michael Jackson’, this is what they were stuck with. And it was poorly done, because it was one-dimensional, mythologizing and lionizing (and honestly, infantalizing) him, as opposed to humanizing his journey. As opposed to fueling a journey of maturity, he ran behind other adults to follow up on the things that were the most challenging to him, while reiterating that he’s “no longer a child, but a man.”
The way they softly touched on the ‘rivalry’ between Berry Gordy and Joe Jackson (a battle between two equally problematic men, as father and father figure/surrogate) could have also been expounded upon, but they never explored this again. The fact that Diana Ross was missing from MJ’s story was also strange. Again, she may not have wanted her likeness depicted, but to mention no reference to her AT ALL? This man essentially idealized her as a child, and wanted to marry her, but she just was not there. She was a MASSIVE part of his development as a performer… and she did not exist in the world of this movie. Neither did Stevie Wonder or Smokey Robinson, despite him getting a quick mention.
The scene with Gladys Knight (and (maybe) the Pips) bothered me; never mind the fact that the woman they had playing her looked or sounded nothing like her. During the end credits, it was mentioned that Berry Gordy discovered the J5 (when they made note about their ‘Never Can Say Goodbye’ incoherent time jump). This statement absolutely disrespects Gladys Knight and Bobby Taylor, who ended up telling Gordy about them. When Suzanne DePasse gives Joe her business card, i was like, ‘Huh?’ In the next scene, they’re sitting in the Motown office, with no mention of their audition tape.
Diana Ross was also the star of The Wiz- again, a whole era this movie missed- and where MJ first began seriously working with Quincy Jones. If they snuck a peak of a John Landis, they could have snuck a peek of a Sidney Lumet. If it wasn’t enough in the budget to include all of these things, they could have easily put some easter eggs, or made quick mention of them as a plot point. But they skipped over whole eras which were crucial to not only his development as a person, but as an artist.
‘Forever, Michael’ was the one album where you really began to see some of the inflections he became famous for; he even spoke in interviews about how that album gave him a few more opportunities for creative input. But NONE of the Motown solo works were included- not even Ben. Despite some of the music being featured, none of the Jacksons-era albums were covered, in any kind of detail. If they were serious about their mission of depicting Michael’s journey of coming into his own as an artist, they could have had a quick scene where they referenced ‘Blues Away’, the first song that was officially released, where he was the sole writer. But Gamble and Huff were nowhere to be found in this movie either. ‘Destiny’- the first album where they all wrote on their own (save one song) was also expunged from the story.
The fact that a neighbor gave them the name ‘Jackson 5’ and not Joseph reminded me of how Ella (a crucial part of Malcolm’s life) was left out of the Malcolm X movie. The fact that Motown sued in order to keep the J5 name was left out. The fact that MJ’s first rhinoplasty was due to him (as per the official story) breaking his nose was left out of the movie. The fact that Manu Dibango and ‘Soul Makossa’ (which is where MJ got the ‘Mama Se Mama Sa Mama Ku Sa’ from) and Frankie Crocker were left out of the story confounds me. The fact that Rod Temperton (who wrote ‘Starlight’ (which turned into ‘Thriller’) got a brief mention but wasn’t shown as being present for the sessions- nor do i recall them mentioning he wrote ‘Thriller’- confounds me even more. At least they showed Bruce Swedien though.
The fact that Frank DiLeo (MJ’s Tom Parker in a way) was missing from this movie (but showed John Branca as a pretty significant character) confounds me in a triple fashion. To go from Thriller to Bad without mention of the ‘Elephant man’ and hyperbaric chamber stunts, as well as him going to Australia to purchase the ATV catalog (where the caveat was him making an appearance on some tv show), showed me that this movie/the script had no interest in showing how MJ had the capacity to manipulate the media in his own way, or that he was focused on getting what he wanted, and not necessarily being nice about it.
Given that MJ divulged in the 90s (through the infamous conversations had with Glenda and Sam Stein) that he did have an ED (saying it was the one thing he had control over in his life), the fact that they used food as a significant bonding mechanism was ALSO strange to me. During those tapes, not only did he acknowledge the lie of the Motown machine (and the press run of Diana Ross ‘discovering’ them); he also countered something which was somewhat of an overarching theme in the movie.
While Bill Bray and Joseph emphasized the importance of family- which Michael echoed; in his conversation with the Steins, he discussed the facade of the ‘2300 Jackson Street’ song, as well as the ‘American Dream’ mini-series. “You have to act like all the stuff that happened with, with Joseph and stuff.. It’s like we’re supposed to be the perfect family, you know, because they putting our name out there and stuff… it’s supposed to, you know, look good because it sells records and it attracts people.”
A few minutes later, he says: “‘The Jackson Family; they’re so wholesome.’ And we all took pictures together back in the Jackson 5 days with Motown and stuff like that. We were all so close and Joseph was, you know, ‘Papa Joe’… And then LaToya told the truth… ‘The Jackson family. They lived in a ghetto in Gary, Indiana and they made it, and they’re so tight knit.’ Tight knit, my ass…”
Regarding family, it was clear he was closest to both sister LaToya and Katherine, his mother. While this was somewhat done accurately in the movie, it again, gave these relationships little room to breathe.
Moving on; the fact that it was insinuated that the ‘Thriller’ film was released BEFORE ‘Billie Jean’ was a strange decision to make, as the Thriller VHS was released in 1984, if i’m not mistaken. i remember first seeing it back then, MJ doll in hand. i had nightmares for a while after watching it. In the midst of all of this, there was no mention of Michael Peters or Vincent Patterson, the choreographers of ‘Beat It’ and ‘Thriller’.
To display a bit of tension in the film, they could have shown the era where the public began to show ‘Thriller fatigue’, which would have shown how truly ubiquitous this album was.
During the ‘Motown 25’ scene, they consistently showed a close-up image of this little kid’s face; i kept wondering if that kid was supposed to be Emmanuel Lewis- again, another person who was integral to that whole era of MJ, was was not mentioned at all, nor was Brooke Shields. There was the ‘insider’ joke of MJ saying “If I don’t get it, Prince will take it” (or something like that); however, that was only one of a few ‘true’ easter eggs i could find in the movie.
Speaking of Emmanuel Lewis; while MJ’s relationships with kids did not negatively impact his image until the 90s (which of course was not covered in this movie); it would be incorrect to say that how he carried himself was not considered strange in some circles. To satiate some of the critiques of omission toward any aspect of this controversy (as well as please the fans who maintain his innocence), the movie could have utilized the script to have a ‘wink an a nod’ approach: ‘People keep telling me I’m weird because I spend time with kids, but they’re helping me to get in touch with the childhood I never had.’
Next scene.
Does this go beyond the superficial? Absolutely not. However, it does give a tiny bit of insight to what drove him to do the things he did. The movie could have even explored how he resisted notions of ‘traditional manhood’ (hence the barrage of homophobic comments toward him at the time), while (eventually) simultaneously idealizing some aspects of it, such as compulsory sexuality.
They could have touched on the ‘Billie Jean’ controversy; they could have touched on the Jo’Vonnie or the Gina Sprague controversies (since Joe was already depicted as an evil archetype, why not go farther with it?); the fact that only Michael was getting beat and not the rest of them- never mind the fact that it was because of Tito getting caught with Joe’s guitar (and getting beat) was why the J5 started- was also strange to me. Why not explore his existential crisis regarding being a Jehovah’s Witness and recording/filming ‘Thriller’? Why not explore his creative rifts with Quincy Jones during the Bad sessions? As much as the concert footage was fine (and i danced hard to all the musical sections), i would have been okay with that stuff NOT being there, if i knew there would be a more philosophical exploration of MJ’s life. i wanna see more fleshed out details around what makes him tick as a person. i wanna see some character development. i wanna see contemplative elements. i wanna see a film, not a glorified electronic press kit, propped up to clean up an image of someone who was historically very flawed, just as we all are.
There’s so much more i could say, but this was already quite lengthy. Overall, i think if one is more of a film enthusiast/connoisseur, they might not be as into this film. This is standard popcorn fare. However, if you are focused on the flashiness and the music (or love the image of MJ more than anything), you most likely will love it. In terms of critiques, i’m seeing people who aren’t into it focus more on thematic elements and inconsistencies; the people i see loving this film are focused more on either their love for MJ and his music, and not as focused on film as a medium. That said, the people who stand to benefit the most from this are the estate and Lionsgate/Universal. The film, in my view, is too mixed up chronologically and leaves out way too many crucial details to be satisfying for the hardcore appreciator; for the casual folks (or people new to the world of MJ), it doesn’t give you much to work with either. i don’t think there was anything layered at all about how Michael was depicted. He, like everyone else in this movie, fell flat, which is why i think there was such a heavy focus on the music/visuals.
Again, i am not saying you need to include every single detail of his life into a two hour movie. But this movie literally explored or touched upon nothing that was of value to his true development, as far as i am concerned.
(RECORDED ON JANUARY 22, 2026/OFF THE DOME INTRO ON JANUARY 24, 2026) This episode has been a long time coming- it has been planned for a while, but we just got to it.
Having been involved in the punk and hardcore scenes in NYC in the 90s, jamilah ended up moving to the west coast- absolutely missing Flora Lucini, who moved there around that time. Over 20 years later the two met (by way of mutual sibling Ryan Bland (Bushmon/Home 33/ACHE)), and instantly became chosen family to each other.
Coming up in the 90s and 2000s hardcore scene; Flora is an incredibly inspiring figure in the community. Known as a ‘scene mama’, she books and coordinates shows, as well as being a community activist. Well known in the hardcore scene (obviously), her multi-instrumentalism has led her to varying genres, such as jazz and Tropicália.
jamilah was absolutely excited to sit back and take in the wonderfulness that is Flora: She definitely does not mince words; however, there is no malice behind the directness, and that is definitely a breath of fresh air. We hope you enjoy this conversation between a couple of siblings, who came up in different generations of the hardcore (and punk) scene.
They discussed everything from:
Forgiveness and redemption
Turnstile (and Knocked Loose)’s success
Gatekeeping v. preservation
The ‘othering’ of non-European hardcore bands
Music and art being a reflection of society/culture
The centering of whiteness in art and music (and society)
The inability/refusal of people in the scene to detect and challenge microagressions
The importance of/connection to the bass
The next generation of hardcore kids and their impact on the future
(RECORDED ON JANUARY 5, 2026) There’s always the saying that when things get egregiously bad, there’s going to be a plentiful return of protest music. There’s a bit of a disagreement over here in the world of Music And We, as there’s never been a shortage of political or protest music, regardless of period in time. Material conditions haven’t necessarily been altered for the better for countless people, so art and music will always reflect sociopolitical inequities.
The more interesting question wouldn’t be regarding whether or not people are going to produce more political music and art; it’s whether or not people will create more abrasive, confrontational and incendiary music and art, as a response or challenge to said inequities.
Will there be a return to a counterculture movement?
(RECORDED ON DECEMBER 17, 2025) There’s so much music out there in the world, and no one could possibly listen to, or know everything that’s been released. However, jesse and jamilah did find some gems among the vastness, in 2025. Their choices couldn’t be more disparate… except for one album.
(jamilah neglected to mention Imperial Triumphant’s album, Goldstar, among her favorites of this year; they did get a quick mention toward the end of the episode though.)
The attempt to divide art and politics is a bourgeois which says good poetry, art, cannot be political, but since everything is … political, even an artist or work that claims not to have any politics is making a political statement by that act.
-Amiri Baraka
i say this all the time, but obviously i think it bears repeating: EVERYTHING IS POLITICAL.
As usual, i am one of the last to be aware of news circling around the milieu of popular culture, and much of the time i don’t make much comment on things. However, when it comes to the antics of Pharrell Williams, my short response will always be, “No one should be surprised; we been knew this.” The longer response (which of course is the one i normally give) will always reiterate the pitfalls of Williams’ class alliances, and the limitations of racial solidarity without a class analysis.
In a society particularly dictated by capitalism (where corporations heavily dictate policy decisions), we are conditioned to relegate ‘politics’ with having to do primarily with voting or policy. Because of this, an ‘apolitical’ position is consistently conflated with having a ‘nonpolitical’ position. If everything is political, therefore nothing is devoid of politics.
Even as one might ‘choose’ to not engage with politics; the reality is, most humans do not possess the privilege of escaping it.
An ‘apolitical’ or even ‘nonpolitical’ position (in a capitalist society in particular) can easily and consistently be debunked. Where and how one chooses to spend their money is a political decision. What one chooses to eat (or not to eat) is a political decision. What one wears is a political decision. All these decisions you make undoubtedly affect human and non-human environments. Is what you are wearing manufactured locally and ethically, or was it produced by child or prison labor, or a sweatshop? Is what you’ve chosen to eat rooted or not rooted in animal exploitation? Is the device you’re using refurbished, or brand new, and headed for planned obsolescence? Is the house you live in (that is, if you live in one) based on perceptions or realities of safety concerns?
Politics is directly tied to class: Both in relation to economic positioning and access, but also the social hierarchies that have been determined by those who control said political narratives. One example (out of many) is one we see in many a general conversation, where someone who is European, heterosexual, cisgender or male (sometimes a combination of all of these things) is considered to be the default to a point where they don’t require qualifiers in a conversation; whereas someone who is not one (or all) of those things tends to be prefaced with at least one.
When people are discussing ‘apoliticism’ (when again, they mean ‘non-political’) they are not factoring in the conditionality of constructed hierarchies. They are not accounting for how said hierarchies can shift in accordance to who the system wants to extract from, and how they intend to do it. There are plenty of books which discuss said conditionalities, such as The History Of White People by Nell Irvin Painter, and How The Irish Became White by Noel Ignatiev. There’s also books like The Invention of Women: Making an African Sense of Western Gender Discourses by Oyèrónkẹ́ Oyěwùmí, which confirm the validity to the claims of race and gender being social constructs, not based in any solid universal truths.
(Photo by Theo Wargo/Getty Images)
Bearing all of this in mind, Pharrell Williams could be said to have consistently exceeded these contradictions.
In the latest example of a countless string of… contradictions, is his recent appearance at the 5th Annual Black Ambition Demo Day, located in Miami, Florida. Given that Williams is the founder of a nonprofit called Black Ambition (in which the mission is to “(work) to close the opportunity and wealth gap through entrepreneurship,”), the following comments are proof that Williams has chosen willful ignorance regarding constructed hierarchies: “Do you want someone to support your startup because you’re Black or because you’re the best? So I think now for me, it’s about us having the best ambition, and that’s the reason why you should support these businesses. Yes, they happen to be Black and Brown, but it should be based on the thesis that they’re the best, not because of a shade of skin color.”
On politics, he says, “As we look at what’s going on, the current political climate; I’m just saying to… I don’t wanna turn anybody off, but I hate politics. Like, despise them. It’s a magic trick. It’s not real. I don’t believe in either side. ‘Cause I think when you pick a side, you are inadvertently supporting division. Yeah, it’s not a popular point of view, but I gotta say, when I think about it, the wells are drying up… Now that diversity’s off the table; now that equity’s off the table, now inclusion’s off the table. So that makes me ask myself, okay, so how do we survive?”
Getting to the short response first: While there are those who are incredibly enamored with civics (for example); i personally cannot think of anyone who likes (or even loves) politics, in the way i am discussing it here. No one likes being politicized, which is what i am truly getting at, and what many miss when discussing politics. As the saying goes, you can attempt to avoid politics, but it will always follow you. As many who were not aware are now discovering, traditionally marginalized people in particular are politicized the moment they are in public spaces.
For Williams to say that he doesn’t believe “in either side” is again, limiting politics to a particular party, or a policy, despite the connection to politics being rooted in ideological principles. An ideology is a set of beliefs which guide thoughts and actions. If you are willfully choosing to not take a position, you have thereby chosen to take the ideological position in line with those who control sociopolitical hierarchical narratives.
In terms of the “current political climate” though; you can ‘believe’ or ‘not believe’ whatever you want (just like how some don’t ‘believe’ that bisexual, trans or nonbinary people exist); however, the realities of the ultra-violent response to the increasing death of capitalism and empire (aka fascism) surpasses any belief.
It is logical that Williams’ point of view is “not a popular” one, for the very reason Black Ambition was founded. Income inequalities (based on racial hierarchies) exist. But also, gender inequality exists, ableism exists, ageism exists, language inequities exist, educational inequities exist. If you do not live in a society in which equality or equity are embedded in its very core, one’s individual success story is not going to determine success for the rest of society. Asking people if they “want someone to support your startup because you’re Black or because you’re the best?” is incredibly condescending and individualistic, especially since there are people who lost their jobs due to businesses not being able to follow tech trends or upkeep costs during the most recent pandemic lockdown. The National Bureau of Economic Research also did a report regarding African-owned businesses that were affected during the lockdown; according to the report, there was a 41% decline.
Capitalism is able to thrive because of its design to ensure only a handful of people hoard the majority of the world’s wealth and resources. Given that nothing on earth is infinite (maybe except tardigrades), the idea that anyone and everyone has the potential to amass a great amount of wealth if we work hard enough is a fallacy, when CEOs consistently exploit labor (and keep wages low) in order to ensure their net worth stays abysmally high. It is a fallacy when the stock market is volatile, and corporations base their campaigns on sociopolitical trends or pressures (in order to maintain profits), or more specifically, when corporations have a direct hand in influencing policy (via the soft power of military recruitment through Hollywood, or surveillance via social media, etc.).
(Photo: Zuma Press)
The class interests of anyone who mentions the ‘divisiveness’ of publicly stating an ideological position is quite clear. Anyone who avoids ‘picking a side’ because they deem it as “inadvertently supporting division” (particularly in the face of countless human rights violations) has told you who they are. It is also disingenuous that anyone would say this, given that people ideologically ‘pick sides’ every single day of their life.
Pharrell Williams is not immune to this. In a 2024 interview with The Hollywood Reporter, he says, “I don’t do politics. In fact, I get annoyed sometimes when I see celebrities trying to tell you [who to vote for]. There are celebrities that I respect that have an opinion, but not all of them. I’m one of them people [who says], “What the heck? Shut up. Nobody asked you.” When people get out there and get self-righteous and they roll up their sleeves and shit, and they are out there walking around with a placard: “Shut up!” So, no, I would rather stay out of the way, and obviously, I’m going to vote how I’m going to vote. I care about my people and I care about the country, but I feel there’s a lot of work that needs to be done, and I’m really about the action.”
He believes himself to be “much more of a federal employee. I believe in merited civil service.” He expounds on this by saying:”Well, there are federal employees appointed by the president, right? You come in because you are loyal to a party or your leader. Then there are federal employees, this is what they do, come rain or shine, whether it’s a Democrat or a Republican in office, you show up to work every day, you serve your country. I’m more of a humanitarian. I like people trying to help people. Not sure I’ll ever vote far right. I won’t do that.
But I don’t really do politics. Some policies I lean into; I think education is important. We have a nonprofit called YELLOW [whose mission is equity through education], and then there’s another 501(c)(3) that helps Black and Brown entrepreneurs called Black Ambition — those are the things I lean into. I’m not an activist, but I believe in action. But I do believe in activists, and you need everybody.”
How exactly does one “do” politics, when politics are inescapable? It is very clear that like many, Pharrell Williams is ideologically inconsistent and at times, indecisive. If one does not take a clear/decisive position, one will definitely be made for them.
He of course, follows in the steps of another ideologically inconsistent (and currently incarcerated) celebrity, Sean Combs. Williams’ participated in Combs’ Vote Or Die campaign in 2004, which was targeted specifically towards marginalized communities. In 2012, he designed clothes for the Runway To Win campaign for Barack Obama. In 2016 he endorsed Hillary Clinton for president- for gender essentialist reasons, despite Clinton’s neoliberal, imperialist record: “It’s time for a woman to be in there; Women think about things in a holistic way, it’s not so individual.”
In 2018, Trump received a cease-and-desist letter from Williams’ camp, to stop “Happy” from being played directly after a mass shooting at Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh. As late as 2022, Williams endorsed Aaron Rouse for Virginia State Senator, adding “Virginia! Let your voice be heard, VOTE NOW,” on social media. Even more recently (in 2024), he and his wife participated in a State Visit At Elysee Palace in France, which doubled as a fashion show and was hosted by the Macrons. In February of 2025, he participated in an Artificial Intelligence Summit in France alongside JD Vance, who spoke against “excessive regulation” of AI. While UN Secretary-General António Guterres warned against overuse of unsustainable AI data centers, Williams opined that “We wouldn’t use AI to help us write a song,” and that it “wouldn’t replace creativity…You know, there was a whole thing around the year 2000 as well, but we’re fine, we survived that.” Given that outright or assisted AI songs are increasingly on digital music charts, we cannot be so sure. It is also crucial to note the connection between the building of AI data centers and their environmental, medical and economic toll on African communities.
If Pharrell Williams is emphatic in not ‘picking a side’, he certainly has not been doing a convincing job.
In one of the biggest pronouncements of “picking a side,” on the 1st of November 2018, Williams performed at the Western Region Gala of the so called Friends of The Israel Defense Forces, or the FIDF, contributing to raising $60 million for the event.
(Photo: EPA)
We don’t think you fight fire with fire best ; we think you fight fire with water best. We’re going to fight racism not with racism, but we’re going to fight with solidarity. We say we’re not going to fight capitalism with black capitalism, but we’re going to fight it with socialism.
-Fred Hampton
“If diversity, equity and inclusion ever comes back in style, cool. But in the mean time, I’m gonna focus on being the best because I can bank on that. Because that’s what’s gonna get you to the position.”
Pharrell Williams has told us who he was, long ago. His comments at the Black Ambition Demo Day should be of no surprise to anyone.
His statement about Diversity, Equity and Inclusion programs being akin to a trend, or “in style” is massively flippant or cavalier off the top; however, i don’t see it as being a purposefully dense one. Despite how flippant and disingenuous he may be, his class alliances are informing his perspectives; so there’s something in him that sincerely believes in what he’s saying- even if a little bit. Given that he contributed to developing a nonprofit which addresses the inequities which prompted DEI programs in the first place; he is highly aware that again, businesses plan and react according to sociopolitical trends. Capitalism has no moral compass, so the moment it didn’t have to adhere to federal procedure in ensuring diversity, larger businesses in general did not actively resist any anti-DEI executive orders. Because he recognizes how fickle trends can be, Williams resorted to the centrist position of meritocracy being the optimal factor of success.
His idealism does not match the reality of the immense saturation of say, creative fields. No matter how many people think what i do is positive; i accept that someone whose work is much more reactionary and flowery is going to do much better than any blog or piece of music i do, in terms of how many people see, hear and engage. Also as the saying goes, ‘It’s who you know.’
And as we’ve seen over time (and currently), nothing regarding human rights in the U.S. is institutionalized, given that it’s either been gutted, removed, or threatened to be removed. If any group of people have to be dependent on this government to bestow any sense of ‘freedom’, then is it freedom? As ancestor Assata Shakur said, “Nobody in the world, nobody in history, has ever gotten their freedom by appealing to the moral sense of the people who were oppressing them.”
In the same Hollywood Reporter interview he was asked, “What words can youoffer to someone who’s working at McDonald’s and wants to make it but can’t see the possibilities?”; part of his response was, “If you could figure out a way that you can do a job connected to something that you love, you’ll love showing up every day. You’ll come to work early on Monday and you’ll leave late on Friday. If you can also find a way to service humanity while you’re doing that — well, now you have a dream job that you would do literally for free, but you get paid for it. You’re a part of a bigger team, and you’re doing something that is contributing to the community or your city or your state or the world. That’s the key.”
Because according to him, it is “Very simple.”
In an Ebony Magazine 2014 interview discussing the murder of Michael Brown by the state in Ferguson, Missouri that same year, it is as simple as ignoring the system that determines what crime is for the majority of those who are exploited, while those who commit the exploitation tend to generally be absolved. While he recognized there was no need for Darren Wilson to murder him; Williams added the on-brand position of, “Whatever happened in his life for him to arrive at a place where that behavior is okay. Why aren’t we talking about that?” it is very easy to admonish an individual for (allegedly) stealing an item in a store, and fighting the shop keeper. It is extremely easy to call for ‘personal responsibility’ while individualizing violence and criminal behavior, but one can be somehow oblivious to larger structures of the criminality of capitalism, which include labor exploitation, gender-based violence, colonialism and imperialism; and its outright theft of land and resources through coercive and violent means.
Being even more on brand, he followed up that he agreed with the moral posturing of Bill Cosby’s infamous thinly veiled right wing Poundcake speech- a speech that was given in 2004, on the 50th anniversary of the Brown v. Board Of Education decision. In the continuation of this trajectory, he emphasized the philosophy of being a “New Black”: In an interview with Oprah Winfrey (which you have to search a little bit deeper for, in terms of any references to this interview, as it appears to have been wiped clean), Williams says, “The ‘New Black’ doesn’t blame other races for our issues. The new Black dreams and realizes that it’s not a pigmentation; it’s a mentality. And it’s either going to work for you, or it’s going to work against you. And you’ve got to pick the side you’re going to be on.”
Well, at least he is aware that he must pick a side… unlike POLITICS.
When incendiary UK interviewer Krishnan Guru-Murthye asks him about the concept of the ‘New Black’ (in a clip which can be easily found), Williams responds (in his best Thomas Sowell impression), “My experience and being Black is that, like, I love what I do; I love who I am, and I make no excuses for what i look like, and what that means to me… I use my mind for my opportunities. i’m not looking for anyone’s help because of my skin color. i don’t see, you know, my skin color as some affliction, or something that holds me back in the world. I am proud of my skin color, and at the end of the day, anything that I do, I celebrate who I am, and I celebrate what my mom and dad made. And that is, a new way of looking at my life. But can I speak for a whole entire culture? No. I can’t.”
Given that Pharrell Williams is about two to three years older than I am; I am sure he is quite aware of what systemic racism is, even if he feels he has not been the recipient of it. Again, he contributed to creating a non-profit which aimed to address economic inequities based on said systemic injustices. I am also certain that, given the amount of expendable income he has, he’s had many an opportunity to travel enough times around the world to see that it is not only Africans who are dark in hue. This elementary interpretation of how he feels others perceive racism (solely based on skin color) is disingenuous. To insinuate that someone automatically views their hue as an “affliction” because they are addressing or have been the recipient of systemic racism is disingenuous. He claims he’s only speaking for himself, but his language was highly coded.
OJ Simpson wasn’t ‘Black’ either (according to him), but when he stopped towing the line in the way that was required of him, he was again, immediately coded as ‘Black’.
As it’s been said by many, how we identify informs largely how we interact with the world. To identify as a ‘New Black’ is a conscious expunging of addressing the collective struggles African people have experienced, whether continental or diaspora. It is a concerted focus on not reckoning with the work that still needs to be done, that our ancestors have left us to do. It is a mental cessation of the reality that the table a few of us have been ‘allowed’ to be at, was intentionally not meant for all of us. To be a ‘New Black’ you have to relinquish any significant or meaningful alliances with the masses, and perform class collaboration with the architects of exploitation.
The majority of us are not awarded the privilege of ‘transcending our race’ because again, the moment we step outside into the public, we are politicized.
What is also disingenuous about Williams’ statements is that he in particular should understand that ‘Blackness’ is not a monolith. I, like he, involved myself in things like punk rock and skateboarding: subcultures that were not traditionally seen as ‘Black’, as shortsighted as that sentiment continues to be. As a punk kid, i interacted with and navigated in the world not seeing myself as the victim he claims we should not see ourselves as. At the same time, despite me not wanting to ‘transcend my race’ i didn’t have a choice in doing so even if i wanted to, since i was made aware of it by others, pretty much every day of my life- just like he is guaranteed to be made aware of it. My experiences or interests didn’t lead me to a desire to disassociate from my people, physically, politically or ideologically; it made me want to work harder to recognize intersections of injustice, and work harder toward dismantling it all.
Post DEI (formerly known as ‘Affirmative Action’) comments fallout, Williams aimed to clarify his statements with media producer Van Lathan Jr.: “Number one, he feels like the context of where he was and what he was talking about is not being considered. Pharrell was doing a talk for a Black Ambition Initiative that he has. The intent of this initiative is to invest into Black and Brown entrepreneurship. Lots and lots of money; over $85 million to invest into DEI programs, diversity inclusion programs, and make sure that the people behind these programs get exactly what they need.
What he meant to say, and was trying to say, Pharrell told me, is that politics, which he was specifically talking about- right versus left politics. Not the overall example of what it means to be politically knowledgeable or engaged. He’s talking about how right versus left politics, and how right versus left politics typically leave people behind. It’s divisive, because it doesn’t get at the heart of an issue. It is a fight for political power. That is something that he doesn’t wanna be a part of. Well, what he wants to be a part of is empowering people to go out and live their dreams, and execute the things that they are talented in. That is one part of it. The other part of it in terms of him talking about being the best is; what he was saying is that the only thing you are going to fall back on is if in fact DEI is dismantled is how great you are, and that greatness is going to be the thing that you are going to have to invest into, in terms of yourself , if in fact there is no DEI. Which is why he has the organization that he has, is because he wants to give everybody the opportunity to be the best.”
It should be no surprise that Williams’ attempt at an explanation is not only (still) disingenuous, but also paternalistic. He continues to hold a principle that politics is solely or primarily defined under the guise of electoral politics, but also that access to money and hard work would resolve systemic injustices. He also, like many, conflates ‘left’ with ‘democrat’ or ‘liberal’. Not many folks on the left would casually hang out with warmongers and imperialists, which the most prominent of both democrat and republican politicians are. In regard to the sentiment of “right versus left politics typically leav(ing) people behind,” that is actually statistically incorrect, as there were a number of studies which took data from soft power-based World Bank, indicating that countries which model themselves more on either socialism or social democracies fare far better in terms of quality of life.
In terms of politics being “divisive,” division tends to be normalized when modes of learning are more reactionary, as opposed to responsive. When you are engaging with people who have a lack of political education and ideological assuredness- political education doesn’t always comprise of university level books either- you are going to end up with what i gather Williams is alluding to. The concept that fighting for political power is inherently negative is again, due to a dearth of political education. What were Denmark Vessey, Carlotta Lucumi and Harriet Tubman doing, if they were not fighting for political power? What were Kwame Ture, Langston Hughes or Nina Simone doing? What were George Padmore, Leila Khaled or Anna Mae Aquash doing?
As far as i am concerned, if Pharrell Williams does not want to be a part of that, he is disrespecting all of the revolutionary elders and ancestors whose shoulders he is choosing not to stand on. This is easy to see, as his focus is on individual achievement, despite saying he wants to ‘help’ people. Finally, his attempts at clarification are disingenuous since he’s literally acknowledging the necessity for equity programs because again… he recognizes that systemic inequities exist. The solution he is offering as an alternative to the potential or actual gutting of any government programs is not sustainable, because not everyone will have access to grants. Nor does he have an infinite amount of cash to dole out. The only solution would be organizing and working to have a society where no one will ultimately need grants, because everyone’s basic material needs are provided for, and people will actually be able to have space for creativity, as opposed to constantly selling their labor. For someone who emphatically is not dependent on anyone, he neglects to acknowledge there are those who are dependent on the grants he (or anyone else) has chosen to distribute.
I hate war, and I hate having to struggle. I honestly do because I wish I had been born into a world where it was unnecessary. This context of struggle and being a warrior and being a struggler has been forced on me by oppression. Otherwise I would be a sculptor, or a gardener, carpenter - You know, I would be free to be so much more… I guess part of me or a part of who I am, a part of what I do is being a warrior - a reluctant warrior, a reluctant struggler. But I do it, because I’m committed to life.
-Assata Shakur
In closing, to round out what Williams is saying, he actually does have a point, regarding politics being a magic trick. The architects of the hierarchies we live under have us believing these things are true. The ‘magic’ trick is in that these architects make things appear and disappear (be they laws or rights), based on what degree they desire to control the social order.
Given that sociopolitical/class hierarchies are illusory (as anything that is a social construct is not based in any natural/universal truth), they can also be changed, as societies shift into something more humanistic and egalitarian.
(RECORDED ON NOVEMBER 9, 2025) Apparently, ‘Michael’, the Michael Jackson biopic, has been in the works for a few years. Out of the two of them, jesse tends to follow the posthumous happenings of the MJ (and Prince) world, when jamilah doesn’t at all. jesse (of course) is excited to see this movie upon its release, when jamilah is still working to forget the travesties of This Is It, that Thriller documentary, and all other posthumous projects. While she consistently hopes for an Errol Morris-type deep dive documentary, she knows that the reality is always going to always lean towards the vein of an Antoine Fuqua blockbuster.
While she also understands (as usual) that her views and predictions could absolutely incorrect; her initial reactions are definitely in the minority, as the majority are giving this trailer glowing reviews, and are excited to see the movie in the Spring.
(RECORDED ON OCTOBER 9 & 10, 2025) jamilah traveled to California to attend the Mill Valley Film Festival premiere of ‘Metallica Saved My Life’ (among other things). The intent always was to capture the voices of people who attended the premiere; however, what she experienced was far more than she could have asked for.
Present friends and community were reunited, new friends were made… and she had the opportunity to converse with the film’s director, Jonas Åkerlund. She also sat down with her biggest musical inspiration (and a person who’s music had a hand in saving her life), Lars Ulrich. These are experiences she will forever cherish, and will never take for granted.
(RECORDED ON AUGUST 30, 2025) Longtime friends Abby and jamilah have been into DEVO for many, many years; however, jamilah has never seen them live. Given that they are still touring, they decided to do a ‘Flowers’ episode on the Spuds born in Akron, Ohio.
jamilah wanted to do an episode as well, particularly due to the misconceptions the band always receives. While Abby and jamilah’s song interpretations may not always be correct (and while some of the things produced have not been side eye inducing), one thing they do know is that the collective was founded as a response to right wing culture and ideologies; so seeing their songs interpreted as ‘incel anthems’, or seeing statements such as, “This music is what you end up with when you don’t allow girls in the band,” have always been a curious thing.
While not all-inclusive (obviously), they name some of their favorite songs in the catalog (with some renditions on the melodica, tambourine and cardboard box by jamilah). While DEVO has been often imitated but never duplicated (except infamously by ‘Weird’ Al Yankovic (another person who should get a ‘Flowers’ episode)); there’s a reason why their music is celebrated by many. Interestingly, while they are celebrated (and while they had a brief moment of pop stardom), they are still relatively ‘small’ in comparison to some of their peers. Because of this, they were able to maintain artistic freedom (in their various artistic projects/endeavors- which we didn’t even get into… That would be a 10 hour episode).
RIP Robert Mothersbaugh Sr. (aka General Boy), Bob (2) Casale and Alan Myers.
(RECORDED ON AUGUST 8, 2025) Anyone who’s a regular/semi-regular listener to the podcast most likely is aware that (drummer) Lars Ulrich is jamilah’s biggest musical inspiration; and that his band, Metallica, is her second favorite (after Earth, Wind & Fire). Despite discussing the band quite a bit, there has never been a ‘Flowers’ episode.
With this episode- airing just as the band’s self-titled album (aka ‘The Black Album’ celebrated its 34th year of existence), jamilah shares the mic with friend (and fellow Metallica appreciator) Dave Ferraro, where they discuss how they came to love the band, meaningful moments from the music (and at shows), and of course, the concept of the ‘Metallica family’.
In addition, there’s plenty of laughter, a bunch of hot takes (which actually may not be hot takes), ‘St. Anger’ theories and conspiracies, some crew love, and much more!
Song Highlights:
-Of Wolf And Man (Mexico City, 27 September 2024) -Vuelo de la Cacahuate/A.D.O. (El Tri cover) (Mexico City, 27 September 2024) -Frayed Ends Of Sanity (And Justice For All, 1988) -Blackened (And Justice For All, 1988) -Dyers Eve (And Justice For All, 1988) -Battery (Master Of Puppets, 1986) -Battery (Detroit, Michigan, 3 November 1991) -Leper Messiah (Castle Donington/Download Festival (UK), 10 June 2023) -Fade To Black (Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, 14 August 2022) -Fade To Black (40th Anniversary) (San Francisco, California, 19 December 2021) -Dirty Window (40th Anniversary) (San Francisco, California, 19 December 2021) -Dirty Window (Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, 14 August 2022) -FIXXXER (40th Anniversary) (San Francisco, California, 17 December 2021) -Battery (East Rutherford, New Jersey, 4 August 2023) -Inamorata (72 Seasons, 2023) -Sleepwalk My Life Away (Castle Donington/Download Festival (UK), 8 June 2023) -Shadows Follow (East Rutherford, New Jersey, 4 August 2023) -Too Far Gone (East Rutherford, New Jersey, 6 August 2023) -Metal Militia (Zuzula Celebration) (Hollywood, Florida, 6 November 2022) -Phantom Lord (Zuzula Celebration) (Hollywood, Florida, 6 November 2022) -Room Of Mirrors (72 Seasons, 2023) -Creeping Death (Castle Donington/Download Festival (UK), 8 June 2023) -Orion (Through The Never, 2013)
Thank you for listening!!!
If you want to tell us about your favorite Metallica songs or moments, you can contact us at: musicandwepodcast@gmail.com
(RECORDED ON JULY 27, 2025) Music And We has been going for some time now (with a bit of a hiatus); however, the podcast was started later in the game, unlike the 2012 premiere of Witchpolice Radio. Hosted by Sam Thompson, Witchpolice Radio focuses on the local scene in Manitoba, a province in central Canada.
Sam and jamilah met among the circle of Propagandhi appreciators; over some time they began having conversations about various other types of music- surprising her with his vast knowledge of music coming out of Jamaica specifically.
She isn’t one who ‘invites someone to the cookout’ just because they’re respectful of someone’s music. However, she is one to invite someone on a podcast to discuss it. Sam and jamilah discuss the distinctions between appreciation and appropriation, apologies and corrective action, the life of being a music nerd, love for Bad Brains and Fishbone, and more!
So… About This MJ Movie.
(SPOILERS AHEAD)
In case you who are reading this may not know, a Michael Jackson biopic just premiered a widespread release on the 24th of April. i happened to see it on the 23rd, and immediately recorded a podcast episode (plus this) with the first thoughts that came into my head.
jesse took me to see it- he had far more of an interest than myself in wanting to see it. He also wanted to record an episode of our first impressions. i reluctantly went, as (a. i do not follow much of what the MJ estate does (and everything i’ve heard of them doing sounds exploitative), and (b. i preemptively knew i was not going to like this movie, because it would not be a serious examination of MJ as a person.
i haven’t read many reviews in depth; the only one i read however, described it as a “wax museum.” The general sentiment has been split between what i estimate are the more hardcore of MJ fans and appreciators, and film critics and connoisseurs. As a person who appreciates MJ more from a philosophical/sociopolitical perspective (though i like his music as well); i am also a person who is big into cinema.
i absolutely loathe this movie.
As a person who has every J5/Jacksons/MJ album on vinyl, has a couple of MJ-related tattoos, and who has poured months and hours of research (and self-discovery) into writing a book on (and not about) MJ (which i stopped writing upon news of his passing out of respect), i can assuredly tell you that i loathe this movie.
As i mentioned above, the sentiments regarding this movie have been viewed as incredibly binary- either you are an MJ fan and are inclined to unconditionally love it, or you are a film critic inclined to hate on it. Like all of the characters in the movie, there can never be nuance.
People who pointed out issues with inconsistencies and plot holes have been met with arguments that they are more interested in seeing a movie about the downfall of a man, than in celebrating him. i would argue that an erasure of MJ’s contradictions do a disservice to him, and essentially make him into a caricature.
i loathe this movie, because i thought it absolutely did a disservice to Michael Jackson as a person.
i don’t think it was the estate’s intention to honor Michael as a person. For them, Michael Jackson is one thing: intellectual property- a product. He’s no longer alive in the physical realm, so it’s not necessary to humanize him, or address any contradictions that would dispel the myth of the idealized, eternal wunderkind. They would never dare to tarnish the brand.
One of the only reviews i’ve read in full succinctly stated, “It’s not guided by creative choices but by the incentives of its various stakeholders.”
i have not gotten far, but in my search for some semblance of balance regarding reviews, in my rare moment of comment writing on youtube, i wrote a response to someone who identified, if i’m not mistaken, as an historian of MJ (and of 90s R&B in particular). This person fascinated me, because it was refreshing to see someone who was into research (versus being an uncritical fan).
While they did have some mild critiques, they generally loved the movie. As a person who has also been called an MJ historian due to the work i’ve done on the now shelved book- though i personally don’t consider myself to be one- i wanted to give a perspective of someone who held a different viewpoint. i understood and accepted that i am most likely a minority in this perspective.
Of course, when i went to post the comment, it got rejected. My guess is that it went past the number of characters you can post, but i have a mini joke which states that my post got flagged by fans, and it automatically got rejected.
After the posting failure, i immediately decided to utilize it as a blog post: