(RECORDED ON DECEMBER 17, 2025) There’s so much music out there in the world, and no one could possibly listen to, or know everything that’s been released. However, jesse and jamilah did find some gems among the vastness, in 2025. Their choices couldn’t be more disparate… except for one album.
(jamilah neglected to mention Imperial Triumphant’s album, Goldstar, among her favorites of this year; they did get a quick mention toward the end of the episode though.)
The attempt to divide art and politics is a bourgeois which says good poetry, art, cannot be political, but since everything is … political, even an artist or work that claims not to have any politics is making a political statement by that act.
-Amiri Baraka
i say this all the time, but obviously i think it bears repeating: EVERYTHING IS POLITICAL.
As usual, i am one of the last to be aware of news circling around the milieu of popular culture, and much of the time i don’t make much comment on things. However, when it comes to the antics of Pharrell Williams, my short response will always be, “No one should be surprised; we been knew this.” The longer response (which of course is the one i normally give) will always reiterate the pitfalls of Williams’ class alliances, and the limitations of racial solidarity without a class analysis.
In a society particularly dictated by capitalism (where corporations heavily dictate policy decisions), we are conditioned to relegate ‘politics’ with having to do primarily with voting or policy. Because of this, an ‘apolitical’ position is consistently conflated with having a ‘nonpolitical’ position. If everything is political, therefore nothing is devoid of politics.
Even as one might ‘choose’ to not engage with politics; the reality is, most humans do not possess the privilege of escaping it.
An ‘apolitical’ or even ‘nonpolitical’ position (in a capitalist society in particular) can easily and consistently be debunked. Where and how one chooses to spend their money is a political decision. What one chooses to eat (or not to eat) is a political decision. What one wears is a political decision. All these decisions you make undoubtedly affect human and non-human environments. Is what you are wearing manufactured locally and ethically, or was it produced by child or prison labor, or a sweatshop? Is what you’ve chosen to eat rooted or not rooted in animal exploitation? Is the device you’re using refurbished, or brand new, and headed for planned obsolescence? Is the house you live in (that is, if you live in one) based on perceptions or realities of safety concerns?
Politics is directly tied to class: Both in relation to economic positioning and access, but also the social hierarchies that have been determined by those who control said political narratives. One example (out of many) is one we see in many a general conversation, where someone who is European, heterosexual, cisgender or male (sometimes a combination of all of these things) is considered to be the default to a point where they don’t require qualifiers in a conversation; whereas someone who is not one (or all) of those things tends to be prefaced with at least one.
When people are discussing ‘apoliticism’ (when again, they mean ‘non-political’) they are not factoring in the conditionality of constructed hierarchies. They are not accounting for how said hierarchies can shift in accordance to who the system wants to extract from, and how they intend to do it. There are plenty of books which discuss said conditionalities, such as The History Of White People by Nell Irvin Painter, and How The Irish Became White by Noel Ignatiev. There’s also books like The Invention of Women: Making an African Sense of Western Gender Discourses by Oyèrónkẹ́ Oyěwùmí, which confirm the validity to the claims of race and gender being social constructs, not based in any solid universal truths.
(Photo by Theo Wargo/Getty Images)
Bearing all of this in mind, Pharrell Williams could be said to have consistently exceeded these contradictions.
In the latest example of a countless string of… contradictions, is his recent appearance at the 5th Annual Black Ambition Demo Day, located in Miami, Florida. Given that Williams is the founder of a nonprofit called Black Ambition (in which the mission is to “(work) to close the opportunity and wealth gap through entrepreneurship,”), the following comments are proof that Williams has chosen willful ignorance regarding constructed hierarchies: “Do you want someone to support your startup because you’re Black or because you’re the best? So I think now for me, it’s about us having the best ambition, and that’s the reason why you should support these businesses. Yes, they happen to be Black and Brown, but it should be based on the thesis that they’re the best, not because of a shade of skin color.”
On politics, he says, “As we look at what’s going on, the current political climate; I’m just saying to… I don’t wanna turn anybody off, but I hate politics. Like, despise them. It’s a magic trick. It’s not real. I don’t believe in either side. ‘Cause I think when you pick a side, you are inadvertently supporting division. Yeah, it’s not a popular point of view, but I gotta say, when I think about it, the wells are drying up… Now that diversity’s off the table; now that equity’s off the table, now inclusion’s off the table. So that makes me ask myself, okay, so how do we survive?”
Getting to the short response first: While there are those who are incredibly enamored with civics (for example); i personally cannot think of anyone who likes (or even loves) politics, in the way i am discussing it here. No one likes being politicized, which is what i am truly getting at, and what many miss when discussing politics. As the saying goes, you can attempt to avoid politics, but it will always follow you. As many who were not aware are now discovering, traditionally marginalized people in particular are politicized the moment they are in public spaces.
For Williams to say that he doesn’t believe “in either side” is again, limiting politics to a particular party, or a policy, despite the connection to politics being rooted in ideological principles. An ideology is a set of beliefs which guide thoughts and actions. If you are willfully choosing to not take a position, you have thereby chosen to take the ideological position in line with those who control sociopolitical hierarchical narratives.
In terms of the “current political climate” though; you can ‘believe’ or ‘not believe’ whatever you want (just like how some don’t ‘believe’ that bisexual, trans or nonbinary people exist); however, the realities of the ultra-violent response to the increasing death of capitalism and empire (aka fascism) surpasses any belief.
It is logical that Williams’ point of view is “not a popular” one, for the very reason Black Ambition was founded. Income inequalities (based on racial hierarchies) exist. But also, gender inequality exists, ableism exists, ageism exists, language inequities exist, educational inequities exist. If you do not live in a society in which equality or equity are embedded in its very core, one’s individual success story is not going to determine success for the rest of society. Asking people if they “want someone to support your startup because you’re Black or because you’re the best?” is incredibly condescending and individualistic, especially since there are people who lost their jobs due to businesses not being able to follow tech trends or upkeep costs during the most recent pandemic lockdown. The National Bureau of Economic Research also did a report regarding African-owned businesses that were affected during the lockdown; according to the report, there was a 41% decline.
Capitalism is able to thrive because of its design to ensure only a handful of people hoard the majority of the world’s wealth and resources. Given that nothing on earth is infinite (maybe except tardigrades), the idea that anyone and everyone has the potential to amass a great amount of wealth if we work hard enough is a fallacy, when CEOs consistently exploit labor (and keep wages low) in order to ensure their net worth stays abysmally high. It is a fallacy when the stock market is volatile, and corporations base their campaigns on sociopolitical trends or pressures (in order to maintain profits), or more specifically, when corporations have a direct hand in influencing policy (via the soft power of military recruitment through Hollywood, or surveillance via social media, etc.).
(Photo: Zuma Press)
The class interests of anyone who mentions the ‘divisiveness’ of publicly stating an ideological position is quite clear. Anyone who avoids ‘picking a side’ because they deem it as “inadvertently supporting division” (particularly in the face of countless human rights violations) has told you who they are. It is also disingenuous that anyone would say this, given that people ideologically ‘pick sides’ every single day of their life.
Pharrell Williams is not immune to this. In a 2024 interview with The Hollywood Reporter, he says, “I don’t do politics. In fact, I get annoyed sometimes when I see celebrities trying to tell you [who to vote for]. There are celebrities that I respect that have an opinion, but not all of them. I’m one of them people [who says], “What the heck? Shut up. Nobody asked you.” When people get out there and get self-righteous and they roll up their sleeves and shit, and they are out there walking around with a placard: “Shut up!” So, no, I would rather stay out of the way, and obviously, I’m going to vote how I’m going to vote. I care about my people and I care about the country, but I feel there’s a lot of work that needs to be done, and I’m really about the action.”
He believes himself to be “much more of a federal employee. I believe in merited civil service.” He expounds on this by saying:”Well, there are federal employees appointed by the president, right? You come in because you are loyal to a party or your leader. Then there are federal employees, this is what they do, come rain or shine, whether it’s a Democrat or a Republican in office, you show up to work every day, you serve your country. I’m more of a humanitarian. I like people trying to help people. Not sure I’ll ever vote far right. I won’t do that.
But I don’t really do politics. Some policies I lean into; I think education is important. We have a nonprofit called YELLOW [whose mission is equity through education], and then there’s another 501(c)(3) that helps Black and Brown entrepreneurs called Black Ambition — those are the things I lean into. I’m not an activist, but I believe in action. But I do believe in activists, and you need everybody.”
How exactly does one “do” politics, when politics are inescapable? It is very clear that like many, Pharrell Williams is ideologically inconsistent and at times, indecisive. If one does not take a clear/decisive position, one will definitely be made for them.
He of course, follows in the steps of another ideologically inconsistent (and currently incarcerated) celebrity, Sean Combs. Williams’ participated in Combs’ Vote Or Die campaign in 2004, which was targeted specifically towards marginalized communities. In 2012, he designed clothes for the Runway To Win campaign for Barack Obama. In 2016 he endorsed Hillary Clinton for president- for gender essentialist reasons, despite Clinton’s neoliberal, imperialist record: “It’s time for a woman to be in there; Women think about things in a holistic way, it’s not so individual.”
In 2018, Trump received a cease-and-desist letter from Williams’ camp, to stop “Happy” from being played directly after a mass shooting at Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh. As late as 2022, Williams endorsed Aaron Rouse for Virginia State Senator, adding “Virginia! Let your voice be heard, VOTE NOW,” on social media. Even more recently (in 2024), he and his wife participated in a State Visit At Elysee Palace in France, which doubled as a fashion show and was hosted by the Macrons. In February of 2025, he participated in an Artificial Intelligence Summit in France alongside JD Vance, who spoke against “excessive regulation” of AI. While UN Secretary-General António Guterres warned against overuse of unsustainable AI data centers, Williams opined that “We wouldn’t use AI to help us write a song,” and that it “wouldn’t replace creativity…You know, there was a whole thing around the year 2000 as well, but we’re fine, we survived that.” Given that outright or assisted AI songs are increasingly on digital music charts, we cannot be so sure. It is also crucial to note the connection between the building of AI data centers and their environmental, medical and economic toll on African communities.
If Pharrell Williams is emphatic in not ‘picking a side’, he certainly has not been doing a convincing job.
In one of the biggest pronouncements of “picking a side,” on the 1st of November 2018, Williams performed at the Western Region Gala of the so called Friends of The Israel Defense Forces, or the FIDF, contributing to raising $60 million for the event.
(Photo: EPA)
We don’t think you fight fire with fire best ; we think you fight fire with water best. We’re going to fight racism not with racism, but we’re going to fight with solidarity. We say we’re not going to fight capitalism with black capitalism, but we’re going to fight it with socialism.
-Fred Hampton
“If diversity, equity and inclusion ever comes back in style, cool. But in the mean time, I’m gonna focus on being the best because I can bank on that. Because that’s what’s gonna get you to the position.”
Pharrell Williams has told us who he was, long ago. His comments at the Black Ambition Demo Day should be of no surprise to anyone.
His statement about Diversity, Equity and Inclusion programs being akin to a trend, or “in style” is massively flippant or cavalier off the top; however, i don’t see it as being a purposefully dense one. Despite how flippant and disingenuous he may be, his class alliances are informing his perspectives; so there’s something in him that sincerely believes in what he’s saying- even if a little bit. Given that he contributed to developing a nonprofit which addresses the inequities which prompted DEI programs in the first place; he is highly aware that again, businesses plan and react according to sociopolitical trends. Capitalism has no moral compass, so the moment it didn’t have to adhere to federal procedure in ensuring diversity, larger businesses in general did not actively resist any anti-DEI executive orders. Because he recognizes how fickle trends can be, Williams resorted to the centrist position of meritocracy being the optimal factor of success.
His idealism does not match the reality of the immense saturation of say, creative fields. No matter how many people think what i do is positive; i accept that someone whose work is much more reactionary and flowery is going to do much better than any blog or piece of music i do, in terms of how many people see, hear and engage. Also as the saying goes, ‘It’s who you know.’
And as we’ve seen over time (and currently), nothing regarding human rights in the U.S. is institutionalized, given that it’s either been gutted, removed, or threatened to be removed. If any group of people have to be dependent on this government to bestow any sense of ‘freedom’, then is it freedom? As ancestor Assata Shakur said, “Nobody in the world, nobody in history, has ever gotten their freedom by appealing to the moral sense of the people who were oppressing them.”
In the same Hollywood Reporter interview he was asked, “What words can youoffer to someone who’s working at McDonald’s and wants to make it but can’t see the possibilities?”; part of his response was, “If you could figure out a way that you can do a job connected to something that you love, you’ll love showing up every day. You’ll come to work early on Monday and you’ll leave late on Friday. If you can also find a way to service humanity while you’re doing that — well, now you have a dream job that you would do literally for free, but you get paid for it. You’re a part of a bigger team, and you’re doing something that is contributing to the community or your city or your state or the world. That’s the key.”
Because according to him, it is “Very simple.”
In an Ebony Magazine 2014 interview discussing the murder of Michael Brown by the state in Ferguson, Missouri that same year, it is as simple as ignoring the system that determines what crime is for the majority of those who are exploited, while those who commit the exploitation tend to generally be absolved. While he recognized there was no need for Darren Wilson to murder him; Williams added the on-brand position of, “Whatever happened in his life for him to arrive at a place where that behavior is okay. Why aren’t we talking about that?” it is very easy to admonish an individual for (allegedly) stealing an item in a store, and fighting the shop keeper. It is extremely easy to call for ‘personal responsibility’ while individualizing violence and criminal behavior, but one can be somehow oblivious to larger structures of the criminality of capitalism, which include labor exploitation, gender-based violence, colonialism and imperialism; and its outright theft of land and resources through coercive and violent means.
Being even more on brand, he followed up that he agreed with the moral posturing of Bill Cosby’s infamous thinly veiled right wing Poundcake speech- a speech that was given in 2004, on the 50th anniversary of the Brown v. Board Of Education decision. In the continuation of this trajectory, he emphasized the philosophy of being a “New Black”: In an interview with Oprah Winfrey (which you have to search a little bit deeper for, in terms of any references to this interview, as it appears to have been wiped clean), Williams says, “The ‘New Black’ doesn’t blame other races for our issues. The new Black dreams and realizes that it’s not a pigmentation; it’s a mentality. And it’s either going to work for you, or it’s going to work against you. And you’ve got to pick the side you’re going to be on.”
Well, at least he is aware that he must pick a side… unlike POLITICS.
When incendiary UK interviewer Krishnan Guru-Murthye asks him about the concept of the ‘New Black’ (in a clip which can be easily found), Williams responds (in his best Thomas Sowell impression), “My experience and being Black is that, like, I love what I do; I love who I am, and I make no excuses for what i look like, and what that means to me… I use my mind for my opportunities. i’m not looking for anyone’s help because of my skin color. i don’t see, you know, my skin color as some affliction, or something that holds me back in the world. I am proud of my skin color, and at the end of the day, anything that I do, I celebrate who I am, and I celebrate what my mom and dad made. And that is, a new way of looking at my life. But can I speak for a whole entire culture? No. I can’t.”
Given that Pharrell Williams is about two to three years older than I am; I am sure he is quite aware of what systemic racism is, even if he feels he has not been the recipient of it. Again, he contributed to creating a non-profit which aimed to address economic inequities based on said systemic injustices. I am also certain that, given the amount of expendable income he has, he’s had many an opportunity to travel enough times around the world to see that it is not only Africans who are dark in hue. This elementary interpretation of how he feels others perceive racism (solely based on skin color) is disingenuous. To insinuate that someone automatically views their hue as an “affliction” because they are addressing or have been the recipient of systemic racism is disingenuous. He claims he’s only speaking for himself, but his language was highly coded.
OJ Simpson wasn’t ‘Black’ either (according to him), but when he stopped towing the line in the way that was required of him, he was again, immediately coded as ‘Black’.
As it’s been said by many, how we identify informs largely how we interact with the world. To identify as a ‘New Black’ is a conscious expunging of addressing the collective struggles African people have experienced, whether continental or diaspora. It is a concerted focus on not reckoning with the work that still needs to be done, that our ancestors have left us to do. It is a mental cessation of the reality that the table a few of us have been ‘allowed’ to be at, was intentionally not meant for all of us. To be a ‘New Black’ you have to relinquish any significant or meaningful alliances with the masses, and perform class collaboration with the architects of exploitation.
The majority of us are not awarded the privilege of ‘transcending our race’ because again, the moment we step outside into the public, we are politicized.
What is also disingenuous about Williams’ statements is that he in particular should understand that ‘Blackness’ is not a monolith. I, like he, involved myself in things like punk rock and skateboarding: subcultures that were not traditionally seen as ‘Black’, as shortsighted as that sentiment continues to be. As a punk kid, i interacted with and navigated in the world not seeing myself as the victim he claims we should not see ourselves as. At the same time, despite me not wanting to ‘transcend my race’ i didn’t have a choice in doing so even if i wanted to, since i was made aware of it by others, pretty much every day of my life- just like he is guaranteed to be made aware of it. My experiences or interests didn’t lead me to a desire to disassociate from my people, physically, politically or ideologically; it made me want to work harder to recognize intersections of injustice, and work harder toward dismantling it all.
Post DEI (formerly known as ‘Affirmative Action’) comments fallout, Williams aimed to clarify his statements with media producer Van Lathan Jr.: “Number one, he feels like the context of where he was and what he was talking about is not being considered. Pharrell was doing a talk for a Black Ambition Initiative that he has. The intent of this initiative is to invest into Black and Brown entrepreneurship. Lots and lots of money; over $85 million to invest into DEI programs, diversity inclusion programs, and make sure that the people behind these programs get exactly what they need.
What he meant to say, and was trying to say, Pharrell told me, is that politics, which he was specifically talking about- right versus left politics. Not the overall example of what it means to be politically knowledgeable or engaged. He’s talking about how right versus left politics, and how right versus left politics typically leave people behind. It’s divisive, because it doesn’t get at the heart of an issue. It is a fight for political power. That is something that he doesn’t wanna be a part of. Well, what he wants to be a part of is empowering people to go out and live their dreams, and execute the things that they are talented in. That is one part of it. The other part of it in terms of him talking about being the best is; what he was saying is that the only thing you are going to fall back on is if in fact DEI is dismantled is how great you are, and that greatness is going to be the thing that you are going to have to invest into, in terms of yourself , if in fact there is no DEI. Which is why he has the organization that he has, is because he wants to give everybody the opportunity to be the best.”
It should be no surprise that Williams’ attempt at an explanation is not only (still) disingenuous, but also paternalistic. He continues to hold a principle that politics is solely or primarily defined under the guise of electoral politics, but also that access to money and hard work would resolve systemic injustices. He also, like many, conflates ‘left’ with ‘democrat’ or ‘liberal’. Not many folks on the left would casually hang out with warmongers and imperialists, which the most prominent of both democrat and republican politicians are. In regard to the sentiment of “right versus left politics typically leav(ing) people behind,” that is actually statistically incorrect, as there were a number of studies which took data from soft power-based World Bank, indicating that countries which model themselves more on either socialism or social democracies fare far better in terms of quality of life.
In terms of politics being “divisive,” division tends to be normalized when modes of learning are more reactionary, as opposed to responsive. When you are engaging with people who have a lack of political education and ideological assuredness- political education doesn’t always comprise of university level books either- you are going to end up with what i gather Williams is alluding to. The concept that fighting for political power is inherently negative is again, due to a dearth of political education. What were Denmark Vessey, Carlotta Lucumi and Harriet Tubman doing, if they were not fighting for political power? What were Kwame Ture, Langston Hughes or Nina Simone doing? What were George Padmore, Leila Khaled or Anna Mae Aquash doing?
As far as i am concerned, if Pharrell Williams does not want to be a part of that, he is disrespecting all of the revolutionary elders and ancestors whose shoulders he is choosing not to stand on. This is easy to see, as his focus is on individual achievement, despite saying he wants to ‘help’ people. Finally, his attempts at clarification are disingenuous since he’s literally acknowledging the necessity for equity programs because again… he recognizes that systemic inequities exist. The solution he is offering as an alternative to the potential or actual gutting of any government programs is not sustainable, because not everyone will have access to grants. Nor does he have an infinite amount of cash to dole out. The only solution would be organizing and working to have a society where no one will ultimately need grants, because everyone’s basic material needs are provided for, and people will actually be able to have space for creativity, as opposed to constantly selling their labor. For someone who emphatically is not dependent on anyone, he neglects to acknowledge there are those who are dependent on the grants he (or anyone else) has chosen to distribute.
I hate war, and I hate having to struggle. I honestly do because I wish I had been born into a world where it was unnecessary. This context of struggle and being a warrior and being a struggler has been forced on me by oppression. Otherwise I would be a sculptor, or a gardener, carpenter - You know, I would be free to be so much more… I guess part of me or a part of who I am, a part of what I do is being a warrior - a reluctant warrior, a reluctant struggler. But I do it, because I’m committed to life.
-Assata Shakur
In closing, to round out what Williams is saying, he actually does have a point, regarding politics being a magic trick. The architects of the hierarchies we live under have us believing these things are true. The ‘magic’ trick is in that these architects make things appear and disappear (be they laws or rights), based on what degree they desire to control the social order.
Given that sociopolitical/class hierarchies are illusory (as anything that is a social construct is not based in any natural/universal truth), they can also be changed, as societies shift into something more humanistic and egalitarian.
(RECORDED ON NOVEMBER 9, 2025) Apparently, ‘Michael’, the Michael Jackson biopic, has been in the works for a few years. Out of the two of them, jesse tends to follow the posthumous happenings of the MJ (and Prince) world, when jamilah doesn’t at all. jesse (of course) is excited to see this movie upon its release, when jamilah is still working to forget the travesties of This Is It, that Thriller documentary, and all other posthumous projects. While she consistently hopes for an Errol Morris-type deep dive documentary, she knows that the reality is always going to always lean towards the vein of an Antoine Fuqua blockbuster.
While she also understands (as usual) that her views and predictions could absolutely incorrect; her initial reactions are definitely in the minority, as the majority are giving this trailer glowing reviews, and are excited to see the movie in the Spring.
(RECORDED ON OCTOBER 9 & 10, 2025) jamilah traveled to California to attend the Mill Valley Film Festival premiere of ‘Metallica Saved My Life’ (among other things). The intent always was to capture the voices of people who attended the premiere; however, what she experienced was far more than she could have asked for.
Present friends and community were reunited, new friends were made… and she had the opportunity to converse with the film’s director, Jonas Åkerlund. She also sat down with her biggest musical inspiration (and a person who’s music had a hand in saving her life), Lars Ulrich. These are experiences she will forever cherish, and will never take for granted.
(RECORDED ON AUGUST 30, 2025) Longtime friends Abby and jamilah have been into DEVO for many, many years; however, jamilah has never seen them live. Given that they are still touring, they decided to do a ‘Flowers’ episode on the Spuds born in Akron, Ohio.
jamilah wanted to do an episode as well, particularly due to the misconceptions the band always receives. While Abby and jamilah’s song interpretations may not always be correct (and while some of the things produced have not been side eye inducing), one thing they do know is that the collective was founded as a response to right wing culture and ideologies; so seeing their songs interpreted as ‘incel anthems’, or seeing statements such as, “This music is what you end up with when you don’t allow girls in the band,” have always been a curious thing.
While not all-inclusive (obviously), they name some of their favorite songs in the catalog (with some renditions on the melodica, tambourine and cardboard box by jamilah). While DEVO has been often imitated but never duplicated (except infamously by ‘Weird’ Al Yankovic (another person who should get a ‘Flowers’ episode)); there’s a reason why their music is celebrated by many. Interestingly, while they are celebrated (and while they had a brief moment of pop stardom), they are still relatively ‘small’ in comparison to some of their peers. Because of this, they were able to maintain artistic freedom (in their various artistic projects/endeavors- which we didn’t even get into… That would be a 10 hour episode).
RIP Robert Mothersbaugh Sr. (aka General Boy), Bob (2) Casale and Alan Myers.
(RECORDED ON AUGUST 8, 2025) Anyone who’s a regular/semi-regular listener to the podcast most likely is aware that (drummer) Lars Ulrich is jamilah’s biggest musical inspiration; and that his band, Metallica, is her second favorite (after Earth, Wind & Fire). Despite discussing the band quite a bit, there has never been a ‘Flowers’ episode.
With this episode- airing just as the band’s self-titled album (aka ‘The Black Album’ celebrated its 34th year of existence), jamilah shares the mic with friend (and fellow Metallica appreciator) Dave Ferraro, where they discuss how they came to love the band, meaningful moments from the music (and at shows), and of course, the concept of the ‘Metallica family’.
In addition, there’s plenty of laughter, a bunch of hot takes (which actually may not be hot takes), ‘St. Anger’ theories and conspiracies, some crew love, and much more!
Song Highlights:
-Of Wolf And Man (Mexico City, 27 September 2024) -Vuelo de la Cacahuate/A.D.O. (El Tri cover) (Mexico City, 27 September 2024) -Frayed Ends Of Sanity (And Justice For All, 1988) -Blackened (And Justice For All, 1988) -Dyers Eve (And Justice For All, 1988) -Battery (Master Of Puppets, 1986) -Battery (Detroit, Michigan, 3 November 1991) -Leper Messiah (Castle Donington/Download Festival (UK), 10 June 2023) -Fade To Black (Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, 14 August 2022) -Fade To Black (40th Anniversary) (San Francisco, California, 19 December 2021) -Dirty Window (40th Anniversary) (San Francisco, California, 19 December 2021) -Dirty Window (Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, 14 August 2022) -FIXXXER (40th Anniversary) (San Francisco, California, 17 December 2021) -Battery (East Rutherford, New Jersey, 4 August 2023) -Inamorata (72 Seasons, 2023) -Sleepwalk My Life Away (Castle Donington/Download Festival (UK), 8 June 2023) -Shadows Follow (East Rutherford, New Jersey, 4 August 2023) -Too Far Gone (East Rutherford, New Jersey, 6 August 2023) -Metal Militia (Zuzula Celebration) (Hollywood, Florida, 6 November 2022) -Phantom Lord (Zuzula Celebration) (Hollywood, Florida, 6 November 2022) -Room Of Mirrors (72 Seasons, 2023) -Creeping Death (Castle Donington/Download Festival (UK), 8 June 2023) -Orion (Through The Never, 2013)
Thank you for listening!!!
If you want to tell us about your favorite Metallica songs or moments, you can contact us at: musicandwepodcast@gmail.com
(RECORDED ON JULY 27, 2025) Music And We has been going for some time now (with a bit of a hiatus); however, the podcast was started later in the game, unlike the 2012 premiere of Witchpolice Radio. Hosted by Sam Thompson, Witchpolice Radio focuses on the local scene in Manitoba, a province in central Canada.
Sam and jamilah met among the circle of Propagandhi appreciators; over some time they began having conversations about various other types of music- surprising her with his vast knowledge of music coming out of Jamaica specifically.
She isn’t one who ‘invites someone to the cookout’ just because they’re respectful of someone’s music. However, she is one to invite someone on a podcast to discuss it. Sam and jamilah discuss the distinctions between appreciation and appropriation, apologies and corrective action, the life of being a music nerd, love for Bad Brains and Fishbone, and more!
(RECORDED ON JULY 26, 2025) When jamilah was floating about in the middle of the Punk Rock Bowling festival (in Las Vegas), she ended up meeting Jonas Woolverton in a small tent selling skateboards and horror-themed items. They talked briefly about punk; he handed her a flyer, regarding a play he was directing- Four Chords And A Gun, based on the story of Phil Spector’s time with (the) Ramones, and their recording of the album End Of The Century. While she greatly enjoyed the play, she ended up finding out about his other jaunts into theater, physical comedy/clowning, and the circus. Starring and acting in The MacEnfro Show; he’s also performed for many years with Cirque du Soleil for ‘Zumanity’, as well as ‘RAIN’, with Cirque Eloize.
Jonas and jamilah discuss Ramones (of course), the various types of clowning that exist, and more!
(This post is also on my Substack page, but i posted it here as well. Thanks for reading!)
When i was 14 years old i was introduced to Metallica.
By the time i turned 15, they were my favorite band. Exactly one month after the day i turned 15, i saw them live. While i may have not been the only one, i was the only African i saw in the entire audience, and one of the few who was not a guy. While i headbanged and danced with the best of them that night, i still kept not one, but both my eyes open in the middle of Buffalo, NY, in 1991.
From deathly glares and stares, to ‘What are you doing here??!!”‘, 1991 was a time where people like me were made fun of (and sometimes attacked) for listening to punk and metal. As i pushed on, i engaged a barrage of, ‘Why are you listening to that White people music??!!’ A teenaged me was not confident or astute enough to push back and tell them about Sister Rosetta Tharpe, (arguably) the architect of the sound which birthed the music i was made fun of for listening to. i didn’t think fast enough to tell them about Bo Diddley (who inspired everyone from the Rolling Stones to Jesus And Mary Chain) or Detroit-based Death, one of the architects of what soon became known as punk rock. i was too busy trying to protect myself to remember to big up Betty Davis, Sylvester Stewart, or George Clinton, who had a hand in moving rock forward to the future, while still honoring its roots. ————————————————————————————————————-
34 years later (and one year closer to 50); amazingly, i am still here.
i feel happy to have been alive to see a shift in consciousness regarding the music i was heavily made fun of for listening to. You are seeing more acknowledgement of those who had a hand in its creation. Undoubtedly because of the positions bands have increasingly taken, you are also seeing more ethnic, geographical, gender (and i’m sure ideological) diversity at shows.
And here is where we return to Metallica. The band’s general message has been fairly similar since the late 1990s (and even more fine-tuned in later years): We do not care who you are; we are all here in the name of unifying through music. We are all the Metallica family. This message could not be more evident, as i’ve gone to the shows on their latest M72 tour, and as i’ve seen Metallica Saved My Life, the Jonas Åkerlund-directed documentary covering the lives of folks in the community- a documentary i had a chance to participate in.
The documentary highlighted a diversity of map locations, economic experiences, gender expressions and identities, disabilities, and more. While a band like Metallica has vocally expressed that they “don’t care” who you are; that sentiment holds much more weight when expressed through, for example, a documentary which they greenlit.
Having met all of the band members before; while i won’t get into it much here, it was briefly meeting them at the Tribeca Film Festival showing of the documentary which honed in on this meaning for me. In a way, it was the many eras of my life, flashing before my eyes. It was taking in the moment of seeing the culmination of the needed internal work all of us have done (and continue to do). It was seeing the evidence in some way, of that message.
While people have looked at women going to shows as either ‘tagging along with their boyfriend’ or a way to ‘get to the band’; i think about Kirk Hammett consistently supporting women and girls in music over the years, always exclaiming that “Girls kick ass!”; i think about what Lars Ulrich said in the infamous 2001 Playboy interview, regarding homophobia in metal: “The metal world needs to be fucked with as much as possible.”
i think about how much Rob Trujillo contributed to moving the band toward an emotional balance. i think about the journey of maturity and vulnerability James Hetfield has taken, and his perspective of how everyone on this earth was “born good”.
i also think about how there are some in the Metallica community who do not share these perspectives; there are some who have not taken the same journey of maturity and vulnerability. In fact, there are those who would rather see the upholding of the ‘Alcoholica’ and ‘Live Shit’ eras of the band, as opposed to a group of people who are fathers, loving partners, and let’s be honest- men who are representing a particular brand… a brand which expands into all seven continents. There are people who openly acknowledge they’d rather see these men drunkenly spout homophobic slurs from the stage, as opposed to soberly acknowledging their vulnerabilities and need for connection from that same stage.
Some of these people will smile at you in your face (and consider you ‘one of the good ones’) while writing a hate-fueled social media post about your people. —————————————————————————————————————-
If we are to call what exists a ‘Metallica family’; there are members of said family who want to ensure it stays a certain way. Despite there being people from these respective communities in the ‘family’; i have seen the spouting of racism, Islamophobia, queer and trans-antagonism, misogyny and western chauvinism among the ranks. i have seen everything from “Cisgender/Heterosexual white men are the most oppressed in our society right now,” to comparing people from the 3rd world to “animals.” i’ve even seen the take that undocumented folks do not pay taxes, which, if the people who continually echo this actually do homework, would see this as wholly inaccurate.
There are people who angrily type onto social media and forum posts, lamenting the diminished influence of patriarchal norms, and complaining about an imagined ‘gay/trans agenda’,. There are those who harbor animosity (or worse) for anyone not performing a ‘peaceful march of a controlled order’ in response/reaction to the inhumanity of ICE raids and kidnappings, and the inhumanity of capitalism itself… and whether or not they agreed with the actions of January 6, 2021; i am sure more than a few who are harboring said animosity currently had little or nothing to say regarding outright destruction of property in Washington D.C. There’s perhaps little that was said whenever property was destroyed after a team lost a football or basketball game.
There are those among us in the Metallica community who feel that anyone who has ‘escaped’ the country they were born into should be more than grateful to be in the U.S… while they ignore the reason they may have ‘escaped’ is directly due to the imperialist policies of the country they ‘escaped’ to. If the U.S. (for example) funds a fundamentalist group in a particular country in order to prevent (in particular) socialist formations and governments from occurring (aka ‘regime change’)- thus making conditions unbearable for the population; one is going to ‘escape’ to wherever they can.
There are those who look at folks considered immigrants in the U.S. as ‘lesser than’; specifically/singularly the more indigenous and African populations who were born in the Spanish-speaking and Creole parts of the Americas/Caribbean. Whether you were born in Mexico (which is 1/3 of NORTH AMERICA, by the way), Peru, Haiti, Chile, Venezuela, Colombia, Bolivia, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Cuba, Panama, Costa Rica or Ecuador (and more) , you are an ‘animal’ and a ‘predator’.
Some folks who love to simultaneously fly the flags of the confederacy and the U.S. (despite those flags being in direct opposition to one another) look at someone flying the flag of the country they were born into (specifically those flags of the above named countries) as being ‘traitorous’; while laws are being penned and signed by politicians, deeming it illegal to critique a country thousands of miles away enacting a genocide (with the economic assistance of U.S. dollars).
i will reiterate what Bad Bunny says, regarding flags, via the song ‘LO QUE LE PASÓ A HAWAii’:
No, no suelte’ la bandera/ ni olvide’ el lelolai/Que no quiero que hagan contigo lo que le pasó a Hawái
No, don’t drop the flag/Nor forget the lelolai/Because I don’t want them to do to you/What happened to Hawaii
The one thing i have to say is: the very band you are a fan of was founded by an immigrant. The same immigrant who, for many years, proudly attached a Danish flag on his drum set. Given the amount of western chauvinism and xenophobia heavily laced with racism in the sentiments of some members of the community, i can only conclude that the lack of pushback of Lars Ulrich’s status as an immigrant is because he is European.
i do wonder if Robert Trujillo (whose roots are in Mexico) and Kirk Hammett (whose mother is Filipino)- two people who have no shame in their respective heritages- were men without notoriety, would they be seen as ‘animals’ by some of the same people who claim to love the band they are in? i wonder if they will come to terms with the fact that notions of gender expression have never been universally based on western values- and in many cases, those places that do hold similar mores as the west were brought on by the force of colonialism.
i do wonder if these same people will eventually mature, along with the people who make the music they claim to love.
(i should also not have to remind people, but just in case i will: NO PERSON ON EARTH IS ILLEGAL. A DOCUMENT DOES NOT DETERMINE YOUR HUMANITY.)
i’ve not spent much time at music festivals in general; besides the random annual local jazz or punk festival over the years, the last time i attended anything major was in the early 1990s, with the second and third Lollapaloozas. While those ultimately were a lot of fun- the most memorable (and beautiful) of those being in the middle of the most brutal pit i have ever been in in my entire life during Ministry’s set in 1992- festivals seemed pretty inaccessible to me, either due to the distance, or the cost, especially since there’s only one or two bands i was most interested in seeing.
i took a chance 31 years later in 2023, with going to the Download Festival: formally Monsters Of Rock, then Donington Festival. The bands i had mostly planned to see were Metallica and Bad Religion (of course), Soul Glo, Taipei Houston, Bloodywood, The HU, and a few others. While there were a few (new) bands i got to enjoy (like the Meffs and Empire State Bastard), and while there were bands i saw a bit of that i was not expecting to see (based on how the festival was set up, such as Puscifer, Lorna Shore or Bring Me The Horizon)… there were bands i really wanted to see but were not able to (GWAR, Municipal Waste, Fever 333, The Warning), because the festival was incredibly inaccessible to one degree or another. The bathrooms were not lit at all, and the landscape was either gravelly or grassy, making it difficult to navigate in a manual wheelchair; and on some levels, even in electric ones.
If it were not for a friend who saw me struggling in the middle of the field, i would have been alone and stranded for the whole festival. Prior to this moment we hadn’t yet met in person, but he knew who i was, based on my conversations with him about my being disabled and in a wheelchair. Outside of a few, most people would see me struggling to roll up a hill, or crying, and not help.
Aside from the various struggles disabled folks had experienced during that year’s festival; Download stays immersed in controversy- last year, a number of bands withdrew from the festival, in protest of its longtime primary sponsor, Barclays. Those who withdrew did so in solidarity/unity with the Palestinian masses who (as of this writing) continue to experience a genocide. While Barclays (one of several British banks which historically funded/supported the transatlantic slave trade) have denied any involvement in their investment in Elbit (the weapons manufacturer in Israel), they also say this: “We may hold shares in relation to client driven transactions, which is why we appear on the share register, but we are not investors.” While they deny direct involvement with Elbit, they do acknowledge “Our clients in this sector include US, UK and European companies which supply defence products to NATO and its allies.”
Download is not the only festival to face scrutiny: There has been a petition going around to “Stop Punk in the Park Festival in Denver (Colorado),” due to its primary promoter, Cameron Collins/Brew Ha Ha Productions, lending financial support to Donald Trump’s most recent presidential campaign. On top of this, Punk In The Park’s is also run by AEG (aka Anschutz Entertainment Group). Philip Anschutz, the person the company is named after, has a very long history of donating to and supporting right wing and conservative causes and candidates.
(This is a piece i intend to write/do a podcast episode on sooner than later: The contradiction of being an artist that holds humanistic/leftist values, in an environment where you don’t have the capital to hold events, tours or festivals which bypass right wing and/or exploitative companies is a very real thing. While being a musician is not considered a ‘real job’ in many circles; it is a fact that for many touring artists, this is their primary income, and as with many other jobs, this is how they get their material needs met. We have to consider that many of these artists also are ultimately either ‘independent contractors’ (or employees of a record label) and don’t necessarily have access to, for example, comprehensive health care. Labor exploitation is labor exploitation, no matter what package it’s being delivered in).
While i enjoyed the bands i was able to see (where of course, the bands looked like ants on the accessible platforms); i became so traumatized by my experience at Download that i swore off festivals forever.
The OG PRB lineup
“Are you gonna go to Punk Rock Bowling?”
A friend (who i met at a Metallica show in Seattle) texted me. My response was that i was not thinking about it as had sworn off festivals, due to being traumatized. He told me that PRB (which it will herein be alternately called) was a lot of fun, and that it would be different from Download.
i had heard of Punk Rock Bowling (obviously, given that some bands i love have performed or frequented the festival; it’s also been around for many years). While i was still skeptical (particularly since no bands were announced at this stage), i took a chance and purchased a ticket, months in advance. As the band announcements trickled in at a moderate pace- and while a few of the bands piqued interest- i was still not convinced of anything wholly fruitful resulting from my attendance, based on history.
Upon purchasing a ticket for this festival, it’s clear that one takes a gamble (no pun intended) with little to no knowledge of bands playing – and as the festival drew close, that gamble became larger, particularly amid a barrage of executive orders. While the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) sweeps were rampant in this country for years prior to the policies that currently exist- something many in various music scenes are acquainted with through activist and organizing circles (including a petition addressed to South By Southwest (SXSW) regarding their complicity); and while there’s no shortage of stories of artists being jailed, detained or deported, it doesn’t make the latest round of artists being unable to participate in the festival any easier.
“We’re fighting tooth and nail to get all the international bands on PRB into the country, despite the xenophobic hysteria at the border. Unfortunately, The Baboon Show (Sweden) and Violencia (Mexico) won’t be joining us this year,” commented festival organizers, as a result of the band attrition. Gen and the Degenerates (Liverpool, UK) were also not able to join. While replacements were found as soon as possible (The Bar Stool Preachers, Western Addiction and Bullshit Detector respectively); whether it’s visa issues or bands being detained due to political views, it’s evident that the Red Scare never departed.
Image courtesy of PRB
i’ve got traveling down to a relative science, just as i now, almost 4.5 years after becoming an amputee, have found an effective method of going to the bathroom. While i say this, the test is whether this science can be applied effectively. Depending on the airport and seat arrangement, some flights go much smoother than others.
This also applies to wherever i am staying. A majority of the time i travel alone in a manual wheelchair, so distance from my respective destinations are crucial.
Though i travel quite a bit, i’ve never been to Las Vegas, Nevada before. i’ve never been attracted to the cacophony of bright lights, sounds and seeming opulence. Despite attending a lot of shows and being a lifelong punk kid, i value my quiet time tremendously. Preemptively feeling anxiety for this experience (again, doing it alone in a manual wheelchair), i was able to get a room at the Golden Nugget- a place which, i discovered (and was incredibly grateful for) was literally ONE BLOCK from the festival.
Upon waiting in line to get a room and a key, as if on cue in an unexpected ‘story of your life’ session, Keith Morris appears.
When i was a teenager, i had a zine i started around 1992 or so, called The Dissonant Accost– a zine i no longer have physical copies of. In 1995 (the year the Circle Jerks’ Oddities, Abnormalities & Curiosities album was released), i had the opportunity to speak to Mr. Morris for an issue. After that conversation we had further correspondence for a time after this, and we used to chat on the phone quite a bit. i felt humbled that he took the time out of his day to chat with some random punk kid over a series of months.
Given that was 30 years (and two legs) ago, i have massive doubts he would remember me. That said, as he walked toward me, we said our hellos, and he gave me a pound (aka so-called ‘fist bump’). i attempted to tell him that we knew each other from 30 years ago, but he quickly walked off, looking back at me. Despite that fleeting moment, i took it as a sign, setting the stage for a positive weekend.
When purchasing space in a hotel room as part of a festival arrangement (or something similar), as a disabled person you are also gambling that there will be accessibility. While the woman who gave me the key was kind enough to offer to set me up with another, more accessible room; she was not sure when this would happen, given that the hotel was (obviously) heavily booked. When this happens, i opt to keep the room i was originally given and make due, asking for a shower bench if necessary.
While there may have been far more luxurious rooms in other sections of the hotel; the room i received a room to was pretty fancy. The room, 439 Square Feet, was enough space for the wheelchair to navigate. There have been rooms where i was not able to turn around at all.
The bathroom is one of the first things i look at upon entering a hotel room. While a toilet occupying its in its own space (or having two sinks) is not wholly unusual; my favorite thing about this bathroom was that the tub was long enough for me to stretch out my long legs; given that i cannot stand while taking a shower, this is a blessing. As a below the knee amputee (whose knee does not really bend much at all, due to it being atrophied in the hospital), given the variation in the types of hotel bathrooms there are, i’ve had to get transferring into the wheelchair from the floor of the shower or bath (again) down to a relative science; and i think i have finally figured out how to transfer from a tub with glass sliding doors, without injuring myself from the metal base.
Social Distortion, ‘Bad Luck’
No matter how old i am, i will always call myself a punk kid.
It is not due to an aching desire to maintain whatever conditioned perceptions of youthfulness that exist among us; it is because of punk being my second major teacher (after Ronald Reagan – in particular, the Iran Contra hearings) that contributed to forming any burgeoning analysis i had about the system of inhumanity that was driving the society, and the country i lived in. The music i gravitated toward abhorred capitalism, encouraged individuality but rejected individualism, and always encouraged questioning the social mores we are taught to believe as truth. Through the music i found books and other media that contributed to my constant journey of study and question-asking.
So many of us are taught as children to ‘never engage with strangers’ and yet so many of us get lured in to the white/brown van of the status quo; and despite its vast foreignness, many rely on it and for example, forego humanism for xenophobia. It is punk rock that saved me from getting abducted by the tacit acceptance of ‘man’s inhumanity to man‘, and to always act and speak out against it.
i will always be indebted to punk rock, warts and all.
And while ‘punk’ (as a music genre and as creative and cultural force) has gone through many iterations, controversies, contradictions and journeys; what it has always meant to me as a student of life will always be present, as long as capitalism (and all its appendages of imperialism, colonialism, state violence, patriarchy (and everything under that), labor exploitation and so much more) continue to exist. __________________________________________________________________________________
Given the cooptation and corporatization of various counterculture movements; despite everything i said earlier, there’s a certain skepticism i had, knowing i’d be entering a punk festival. There’s a chance that walking into a ‘punk’ festival would be akin to walking into a ‘pride’ festival, which has ultimately expunged the roots of the movement, comprising of people in queer and trans communities actively battling state/police repression and violence.
Amid the increasing erosion of third spaces- those places people frequent when not in their houses, at school or at their jobs- within the past few years, i am (personally) noticing an increase in festivals. The shutdown of venues and other institutions as a result of the Covid-19 pandemic have a clear correlation with the loss of these spaces; the cost (both logistically and financially) to maintain many spaces became unattainable. With this reality, people are seemingly willing to travel (sometimes quite far) and pay money (sometimes a lot) to go see music, and to make connections. There may also be a willingness to eschew any trepidation regarding the cooptation/corporatization that exists with events.
Moments after entering the venue, i approached the merchandise queue. Among a crowd, i ended up finding the friend who recommended i get a ticket in the first place. As i got to the front i was faced with a poster bearing the words: TWENTY FIVE YEARS OF PUNK ROCK BOWLING: ALWAYS HAS BEEN DIY– ALWAYS WILL BE! FIGHT TO UNITE- SMASH FASCISM- CREATE- RESIST”
As per my desire for artists and events to be more decisive in their positions regarding sociopolitical matters, i immediately smiled. The more common sentiment is one of, ‘It doesn’t matter who you are, we are all here to unify in the name of music.’ Such vagueness leaves an event open to elements of patriarchy/misogyny, ableism, racism and (of course) fascism among band and audience members.
That said, while i had joy in seeing a poster espouse an antifascist sentiment, i also understand that this does not mean the actions align with the sentiments. A great examination of the festival itself exists, in its contradiction of it being located directly in the center of the visuals of opulence. Among the bright lights and encouraged/implied glut- and among a barrage of (mostly European) tattooed and patched-up visitors lie a community of (mostly African) individuals, struggling with addiction and houselessness.
As a matter of fact, throughout the times i was alone outside in the wheelchair i was assumed to be a houseless person asking for drug money by a hotel worker before i could ask directions to (outside another wing of the hotel i was staying at); i also had a couple of houseless folks in passing, ask if i had any drugs. One of my favorite moments of the weekend was meeting a man who helped me towards my destination for a couple of blocks. While he currently lived in Vegas, he grew up in Washington, D.C.; and we spent those couple of blocks talking about the old 9:30 Club (on F and 9th Street), and many of the hardcore/punk bands that were around. When i got to my destination, he asked if i knew anyone who had a cigarette.
If your ‘antifascism’ focuses on specificities (and has no intersectional or class analysis), then it’s important to ask why. While it’s impossible to resolve sociopolitical injustices in a particular location in one weekend; if your respective festival doesn’t address them at all, then you musk ask yourself why.
Punk Rock Karaoke, Backstage Bar & Billiards
The first band i heard playing when i entered the festival was the Lambrini Girls, from Brighton (UK). They were definitely one of the bands i looked forward to seeing; however, while i didn’t see them, i heard them quite clearly. This was when the realization hit that the festival was much smaller than i expected.
“We wanna see a pit!”, one of the LG members shouted. Next, i heard something to the effect of, “Pretend one side of the crowd are cops! Then the other side, pretend those people are cops!” This made me chuckle, now knowing this is the energy i was walking into. Dave (the person who convinced me to get a ticket) then proceeded to inform me of the layout of the festival.
The Damned, ‘Fan Club’
PRB’s primary event consists of two stages: a main stage and a street stage. No bands overlap. When someone is playing on one stage, the alternate stage is being set up for the next band. The schedule ran fairly smoothly without significant laps or pauses. Like most things in life, the setup is not ideal for someone like me, traveling on their own in a manual wheelchair, since you must continually travel back and forth between each stage, if you want to see every band. However, while the majority of the crowd did move back and forth, i stayed behind in between sets, still able to clearly hear the bands less than a mile away on the other stage, and see them on a screen. Due to staying behind, i was able to be at rail for some of the bands.
The accessible area at PRB was the ONLY time i have been to a show of that size, where i was able to see a band without them being absolutely tiny like ants, or totally obscured by objects or people. Despite this, the accessible area still feels separate from everyone and everything else. i tend to choose being at rail (aka the front of the crowd and the bands; a barrier usually separating the two) because it’s the best way for me to see a show. i was also able to roll to the front and not fight for space.
Not only were people giving me space to be up front, they were looking out for me. While there were multiple mosh pits and crowd surfer all throughout the festival; it was OG Oi!/Punks Cock Sparrer (from the east End of London, UK) where i got pretty beat up, 30 seconds in. They were one of the most anticipated bands of PRB. At one point, a surfer fell straight on my back. It was the second time since being an amputee (the first being Show me The Body at the Knockdown Center in 2024) where i was at a show that intense.
While i regret nothing about being at rail for Show Me The Body, it was definitely an ‘every person for themselves’ environment. During Cock Sparer, though i did get pretty beat up, i had primary people checking on me throughout the whole set, as well as an outer ring of folks.
The festival in general was filled with many supportive people. While on the outside (for the most part) i traveled alone; within the festival grounds, i always had someone assisting me. If someone saw me struggling, trying to push myself along the AstroTurf, they’d offer to help.
Cock Sparrer
On the main stage, brief videos were played shortly before the bands came on, ultimately sending a message that Punk Rock Bowling is not solely about the bands. The bulk of the ire was toward the current U.S. administration and the policies put forth by it; however, there were other clips alluding that the discussion should be beyond the myopic scope of ‘Republicans bad.’ While he was speaking largely of the current administration and its associates, a skit was played of Bill Burr discussing the ineffectiveness of liberals, in their response to said administration/associates. Most interesting of all was a video played of El Hajj Malik El Shabazz (Malcolm X) on May 25, African Liberation Day. Prior to attending PRB that day, i attended/participated in an African Liberation Day program. There was an African man working the event, and seeing Malcolm X on the screen got him amped. We both pled our excitement, and i wished him a happy ALD; the African returned the wishes.
To this day i wonder if the Stern brothers (or any other organizers who coordinated the video interludes) knew about ALD.
While the addition of videos was a pleasant surprise (giving the festival a slight ‘edutainment’ energy); one of the things that would have given the festival a bit more of a cogent energy is if there were actual calls to action and organization. Given that it’s a bunch of punks, i can guarantee that more than a few are already doing organizing and/or liberatory work in some capacity. Still, giving people something to connect to and work toward (instead of simply being upset at the state of the world) would have been far more effective in honing the point regarding the festival’s mission of uniting, resisting, and smashing fascism.
That said, PRB was not organization-free. There were two in particular that were heavily represented. Punk Rock Saves Lives has a significant focus on bone marrow donations, mental health assistance and harm reduction/overdose reversals. At their tent was a display of supplies, from tampons to earplugs. The mission of Punk Rock Food Drive is “to provide a low-cost, All Ages experience to entertain families and friends while providing an opportunity to give back to the community.” At their tent was custom made art, skateboards, hats and many other items to raise money for local food banks, which they also encourage others to do, in their own respective areas.
One could only hope that the mission of “smash(ing) fascism” is not a statement to a mere empty cause, where no one could define what that means, thereby giving way to a dying scene… or a scene that is more than vulnerable to fascist entities.
Laura Jane Grace And The Mississippi Medicals, ‘I’m Not A Cop’
Laura Jane Grace (during the Mississippi Medicals’ set) said this was her favorite festival to be at.
Started by Mark and Shawn Stern (from Youth Brigade- the California band, not the short-lived D.C. band- and BYO Records) in 1999; long before the more well-known incarnation birthed in 2010, it was a bowling league of punk rockers, with some smaller shows. While not perfect (as nothing and no one is), there were a few things that sealed this for me. Despite being significantly smaller in scale, PRB is still relatively large, in terms of notoriety. Most (if not all) of the bands are beloved and/or popular in their respective bases. Some of the bands may have started out at a Gilman St. or ABC NO RIO, but this festival contains bands that have moved far beyond the capacity of those places.
One similarity between PRB and many other festivals is that it depends on ‘old reliables’: many of the bands have been on either the festival bills or club shows numerous times- whether it is Youth Brigade themselves, Cock Sparrer, Frank Turner, Riverboat Gamblers, Hot Water Music, The Damned, or others. Taking a cursory look at older lineups, it does appear that there is a more concerted effort in recent times to highlight more women, queer and trans artists, which would certainly be along the lines of espousing the values exclaimed on the poster (and accompanying 25th anniversary photo book).
Punk, for all its beauty, still does have a long way to go.
Gang Of Four (f. Laura Jane Grace), ‘I Love A Man In Uniform’
And while the journey has been long, the horizon is a bit closer than before.
Attending my first PRB is a bit bittersweet, because i became reacquainted with the people and things that have shaped and inspired me. The first vinyl i ever purchased (at 15) with my own money was Black Flag’s Jealous Again EP. To see songs from this EP performed by members of this band (as FLAG) for thew first time brought me back to being that eager 15- year old. To see Keith Morris- a person i had the experience of (briefly) personally knowing on some level many years ago, a person who fronts a band (Circle Jerks) whose records i also purchased as a teenager, and a fellow survivor- sing these songs was energizing, as i screamed all of the songs and pumped my fist along with Mike, a man i met just as the set started.
The day before, my heart felt incredibly full while watching one of the bands that greatly contributed to the building of my political analysis as a teenager- Gang Of Four. Not only have they inspired any ideological development; they also were important to me musically, as they all had a hand how i wanted to play music- in particular, the rhythm section of Hugo Burnham (drums- in particular) and Dave Allen (bass). Both Andy Gill (guitar) and Allen have passed on, but Ted Leo and Gail Greenwood (who blew me a kiss at the end of the set) have 80 years of playing between the both of them, and can hold their own.
As they’ve been in the process of winding down with their ‘Long Goodbye’ tour, it was fitting they ended their PRB set with ‘Damaged Goods,’ as it was notably their debut single (in 1978).
Frank Turner, ‘No Thank You For The Music’
Of course, it would not make sense to be shaped by such a beautiful thing as punk, and not engage with that in real time, and in the real world.
As an organizer i spend a lot of time in ideological struggles. Many of us punk kids came up struggling with family members, community members and peers regarding the music we listened to, the clothes we wore, and other cultural facets. It’s important we recognize these struggles on an ideological and sociopolitical level as well.
Many see struggling as wholly negative (just as many see the concept of ‘criticism’ as such); however, the role of both an ideological struggle and a criticism/self-criticism process is that they’re there to contribute to growth. The first line of struggle (outside of our comrades) is our friends, family members and other loved ones. If we don’t practice struggle with those folks, how can we move through the world, and around people we don’t know? Nothing is going to change if we only engage with like minded people.
One of the more interesting moments of the weekend was in a rare occasion of me getting a ride. Everything was relatively close (with few exceptions), which is quite rare when i travel.
The audio of the device the driver was using for directions spat out some terrible AI Spanish, and i laughed as a result. The man commented, “I am teaching her Spanish.”
i say something in Spanish as well (because that is most likely the language they feel most comfortable in), and as with many drivers, he was surprised. He asked where i was from; he revealed he was from Cuba. i lit up, and he commented that he ‘escaped’.
My ears perked up. i was in the car with a ‘gusano’, a not so positive term used for individuals who left Cuba following the revolution; this term generally applies to Cubans who largely uphold or support pro-capitalist and anti-Castro idea(l)s (some still thinking he runs Cuba, despite him NOT BEING ALIVE, and not being in office since 2008).
i mentioned to him that i had been to Cuba. He asked if i enjoyed it, and i responded that i loved it. i asked him why he left, and it wasn’t because he was facing political persecution. It was essentially because he was not able to have nice things in Cuba. He mentioned how he had a nice car now, and he was not able to have something like it in Cuba. He said that the government had nice things like food and cars, and the majority of people did not have those things.
While his focus was on having access to particular material items (like cars), i mentioned Cuba’s Family Code, where marginalized people are, via their constitution, considered full humans; versus what happens in this country, where people are fighting just to go to the bathroom and have comprehensive health care.
Having (again) been to Cuba, talking to people on the ground about their situation; every single person was quite clear about why the material conditions are the way they are- THE U.S. LED BLOCKADE. i reiterated this to him. “You are aware that there is a U.S.-imposed blockade on Cuba, right?”
“Really?”
I had to pause for a fraction of a second, that a man born in Cuba was potentially not aware that the place he was born was experiencing a full on blockade, forced by the hands of the country he is praising. As he continued to push back on ‘not having nice things’ in Cuba, i continued to reiterate the point about the blockade. “You can go directly to this government’s websites to see what this blockade is. You don’t have to believe me.” It was like this for the whole ride, which was probably about 15 minutes.
Though it was an ideological struggle, it certainly wasn’t a volatile one. Towards the end of the ride he said, “I like being here, because I get to meet people like you.” And before we said our good nights, he said he would rather be in the U.S. With a chuckle, i responded, “And i would rather be in Cuba.”
i do what i do, not because i’m trying to win an argument. i do it because humanity is at stake, and though we aren’t going to be here forever, we should want to leave this world better than how we came into it, for future generations.
Punk was definitely one of the first things that taught me this.
Power Trip
i am appreciative that someone has come this far in reading this piece; i also realize that it may seem strange to some that there’s not a concentrated focus on the bands, as it is primarily a music festival. So much that connects me to punk has been so far beyond the music, and the festival has resonated with that side of my journey. i’ve met too many wonderful people to think that it is ‘just about the music’- including Jonas Woolverton, the director of the John Ross Bowie-penned dramatized play on Phil Spector’s time with the Ramones, Four Chords And A Gun.
Jonas and me
While not a ‘theater kid’, i always had a keen interest in it. i had the opportunity to participate in a DIY theater group when i lived in Bellingham, Washington, from 2000-2004- certainly not a lot of time in the grand scheme of things (especially as someone who is more of a poetry and essay/blog writer); however, i both wrote and acted in plays throughout that time. i miss it greatly, so when i see other folks out here directing some black box productions, i have no problems supporting when i can.
Four Chords And A Gun was wonderfully directed. To be able to capture the nuances of every character, whether background or foreground in a way that gives them equal weight, is not easy to do. A character may be standing in a corner or sitting on a couch- both saying nothing for five minutes, and you are just as invested in, and enthralled/affected by them. The driving force is the music, but everything ultimately really is about human relationships. Whether bad, good or in between, it takes beings in relationships to create art.
Shattered Faith, Backstage Bar & Billiards
It also takes relationships to keep an environment or scene sustainable and/or welcome.
Going back to what i wrote earlier (if that is something you remember); there are plenty of shows i have gone to, where the organizers and/or bands opt for an idealized ‘unity in the name of music’ position. i certainly am not the only one, but i have experienced a range of microaggressions and macroagressions at shows- anything from ‘You don’t seem like the type of person who would be here’, to ‘You don’t belong here,’ to physical incidents, and more. If a band or event doesn’t have a vocally explicit ‘zero tolerance’ message, you are more likely to see microaggressions present themselves. You will also likely have, for example, pro-fascist elements among the ranks at particular shows. It’s one of the reasons i’ve never desired to go to, for example, a Slayer show.
During FLAG’s set (while i was screaming ‘Jealous Again’ with Mike), that ‘zero tolerance’ policy was put to the test.
A man wearing a red ‘Dago (shorthand/slang for San Diego- not the ethnic slur in this case) Choppers‘ shirt attended PRB- a man i actually saw (by the way), and was not able to make out the shirt from the front, as i rolled in toward the direction of the stage. As FLAG were playing, he was surrounded by a group of punks, moving him towards the exit of the festival. In the midst of this move, the man was punched and knocked down. Security proceeded to separate him from the crowd, and he was escorted outside.
A solid majority who were there as it was happening cheered on the expelling of this individual. Unsurprisingly, there were many not in attendance (but in the punk scene) who showed support. There have also been an increasing number of people who don’t normally give punk the time of day, who agreed with the actions of those who participated in this de facto ‘zero tolerance’ policy.
There are those who claimed the man was ‘simply wearing a shirt, and there was no need to kick him out or ‘commit violence’ towards him. The actions of the crowd were one hundred percent preemptive. “Get out of our fuckin’ scene!” is not just a cry based on drunk sincerity; it is a reality that must be enforced, to keep the scene safe. Fascist symbology is not to be played with or worn in a cavalier way, regardless of intent, at a punk festival in which the premise is, again, zero tolerance for fascism. As the famous Karl Popper writing goes:
“Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. — In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.”
To grasp the fuller context of why this man was expelled from PRB, we must ask why anyone would willingly walk into a PUNK festival with a shirt clearly referencing the Schutzstaffel, the paramilitary wing of the nazis. We are far past a time where most of the OG punk kids were wearing armbands or t-shirts for shock value- and even then, those who did so eventually matured, apologized or atoned. i refuse to believe that anyone wearing fascist insignias at this point don’t align with it in some capacity. Even if you were attempting to be trollish and incendiary, what would make you think there would be no repercussions faced, from a crowd who overwhelmingly aligns with, for example, Palestinian liberation- or at the very least, NO NAZIS AT A PUNK FESTIVAL?
Wearing fascist/nazi symbols/insignias in order to be rebellious or ‘counterculture’ is anything but, since fascism is literally the status quo.
In regard to the shirt, the Dago Choppers (DC for short- based in Ocean Beach, San Diego (California)) was a motorcycle club that, while not a direct chapter of the Hell’s Angels, had close associations with them. While some who participated in ‘outlaw biker’ culture originally did claim to (like some of the OG punk kids) appropriate nazi symbols largely for shock value directly after many members of motorcycle clubs (MCs) returned from combat in WWII; as with many things, there were those who aligned with the symbols, and ‘re-appropriated’ them- thus propagating the influx of fascists, white supremacists and nazi sympathizers that exist to this very day.
While the DC shop burned down in the late 1990s, you are still able to purchase their shirts online. i cannot say if the person at PRB was a member of the DC (or simply purchased the shirt); to say DC or the Hell’s Angels are simply clubs who don’t mean harm would be both ahistorical and currently inaccurate, particularly since just last year, you had a gang of seventeen members of a chapter of Hell’s Angels (in San Diego) face indictment on criminal and hate crime charges, for targeting, beating and stabbing three young African men, from the ages of 19-21.
THIS is why the man was expelled. Whether or not he is a nazi (or sympathizer) is not the primary point. If one man in a shirt with a symbol/runes associated with the Schutzstaffel is simply tolerated (regardless if he’s ‘innocuously’ wearing it or not), more will come. And while it is obvious we can never know what is going to happen outside of the venue (and we must hope for the best while staying hyper-aware), it should be ensured that every single person is going to be protected from any potential violence inside the venue.
And while the song originally was a commentary for folks who claimed to be ‘counterculture’ or ‘punk’ enacting and enabling the same behaviors as the ‘authority’ they claim to be against, whether they be police, CEOs, bouncers at venues or school administrators; the great Dead Kennedys anthem will never be incorrect.
CIVIC, The Usual Place
While the weekend in many ways was indeed a return to what attracted me to punk; in an unexpected turn of events, another This Is Your Life moment occurred.
On the way to The Usual Place is where i met the man who reminisced about the early D.C. hardcore bands, and inside of the Usual Place is where i would reunite with someone i have not seen in 25 or 30 years.
Originally based in Columbus, The New Bomb Turks were a band i constantly would go see. Eventually i’d come to know singer Eric Davidson, and we’d hang out every time the band would come to town. i eventually moved to the west coast in the year 2000, and stopped going to shows as frequently as i was.
When i saw Eric (who, along with his band were headlining the Usual Place show) i rolled up to him and said, “i know you might not remember me, it’s been 30 years (and two legs) since we last saw each other…” He responds, “I was looking at you, and i knew you looked familiar to me.” We both hugged and briefly talked about a couple of things that have happened in our lives over the years.
It has been a long time since i’ve seen them live, and their set was just as fun as i remembered. Always with an energy reminiscent of bands such as the Stooges, The New Bomb Turks are incendiary in the ‘right’ ways- and they don’t have to wear particular symbols to signify ‘rebellion’.
New Bomb Turks, The Usual Place
Eric and me
As tiring as life has been, it was comforting to be in a (mostly) supportive environment such as Punk Rock Bowling. Ultimately, the experience gave me a lot to process, in terms of how to move forward as a person who makes music, as a person who writes, and as a person who organizes.
And how to move forward as a ‘punk kid’.
One of the last things that happened before leaving Las Vegas was that i met Laura Jane Grace, as we were both waiting for our rides outside of the hotel. It was, of course, a very human moment. i mentioned to her that i had a couple of podcasts, and if she was interested in being on, i’d love to have her.
i am not a person who looks at artists to be on a hierarchy of importance, and i am one to always invite a range of people to talk about their life’s journeys, regardless of level of notoriety. i don’t obtain any level of fame or notoriety myself, so it would not make sense for me to ignore the countless people in the world who have fascinating lives. That said, i do consider her story to be quite inspiring.
She was gracious enough to give me information to reach out to her- and as i was planning to send her this blog piece (in addition to any other information regarding the podcasts), a technical mishap occurred, and i lost everything.
i do not know if we will ever meet again. i will say: If anyone does happen to see her, please tell her ‘thank you’ for me. Also if you’d like, you can send her this writing.
Oleg and me, Capital Area Food Bank, Washington, D.C.
Immediately after leaving Vegas, i flew to Washington D.C. to not only see Metallica (who were playing at Northwest Stadium in Landover, Maryland), but to volunteer at the local food bank. It is absolutely one of my favorite things to do, when traveling.
Due to the part of the building where everyone else was (unfortunately) not being accessible, i stayed out front and did some work there. While working, i sat and hung out with Anthony, one of the workers; chatting and listening to Earth Wind & Fire (my favorite band in the whole entire world), Metallica, Prince and Polyphia.
Lars… Because of course it is.
While the majority of this narrative is about my journey at Punk Rock Bowling, i have chosen to end this piece with Metallica, because a particular unexpected moment happened at this show.
As i’ve said many times on this site; despite being an angry punk kid, i enjoyed a wide range of artists, and Metallica was one of my favorite bands coming up. With age (and more than a bit of life experience), the meaning of this band has shifted for me tremendously, particularly after a dear-fatal accident.
In between the accident (which happened in 2021) and now, i have had a range of mental health struggles, an few where i ended up calling a hotline. A particular song, ‘Just A Bullet Away‘, was one of the songs which encouraged me to call the hotline.
On the 28th of May, Rob Trujillo and Kirk Hammett joined together to perform the little doodle they do in the middle of the band’s set. On this particular evening they decided to jam to… ‘Just A Bullet Away’- one of the songs that saved my life. There with my friend Bloo, i became almost frozen in shock; i then began to sob uncontrollably in her arms.
To round out this experience, they played ‘One’, which is another song which saved my life, lying alone in a hospital room, experiencing the amount of pain i wish on no one. It is also my (amputated) leg’s favorite song.
Every day we wake up, there’s always opportunity for new adventures, even if it is the smallest (or seemingly insignificant) one. There are other times where life takes us to places where we are moved to reflect, reconnect and reminisce. And while some of this is directly connected to music, in so many ways it is about something far beyond the music.
the one woman apollo! 
Pharrell Williams, The Myth Of The Apolitical, And The Reality Of Class Alliances
i say this all the time, but obviously i think it bears repeating: EVERYTHING IS POLITICAL.
As usual, i am one of the last to be aware of news circling around the milieu of popular culture, and much of the time i don’t make much comment on things. However, when it comes to the antics of Pharrell Williams, my short response will always be, “No one should be surprised; we been knew this.” The longer response (which of course is the one i normally give) will always reiterate the pitfalls of Williams’ class alliances, and the limitations of racial solidarity without a class analysis.
In a society particularly dictated by capitalism (where corporations heavily dictate policy decisions), we are conditioned to relegate ‘politics’ with having to do primarily with voting or policy. Because of this, an ‘apolitical’ position is consistently conflated with having a ‘nonpolitical’ position. If everything is political, therefore nothing is devoid of politics.
Even as one might ‘choose’ to not engage with politics; the reality is, most humans do not possess the privilege of escaping it.
An ‘apolitical’ or even ‘nonpolitical’ position (in a capitalist society in particular) can easily and consistently be debunked. Where and how one chooses to spend their money is a political decision. What one chooses to eat (or not to eat) is a political decision. What one wears is a political decision. All these decisions you make undoubtedly affect human and non-human environments. Is what you are wearing manufactured locally and ethically, or was it produced by child or prison labor, or a sweatshop? Is what you’ve chosen to eat rooted or not rooted in animal exploitation? Is the device you’re using refurbished, or brand new, and headed for planned obsolescence? Is the house you live in (that is, if you live in one) based on perceptions or realities of safety concerns?
Politics is directly tied to class: Both in relation to economic positioning and access, but also the social hierarchies that have been determined by those who control said political narratives. One example (out of many) is one we see in many a general conversation, where someone who is European, heterosexual, cisgender or male (sometimes a combination of all of these things) is considered to be the default to a point where they don’t require qualifiers in a conversation; whereas someone who is not one (or all) of those things tends to be prefaced with at least one.
When people are discussing ‘apoliticism’ (when again, they mean ‘non-political’) they are not factoring in the conditionality of constructed hierarchies. They are not accounting for how said hierarchies can shift in accordance to who the system wants to extract from, and how they intend to do it. There are plenty of books which discuss said conditionalities, such as The History Of White People by Nell Irvin Painter, and How The Irish Became White by Noel Ignatiev. There’s also books like The Invention of Women: Making an African Sense of Western Gender Discourses by Oyèrónkẹ́ Oyěwùmí, which confirm the validity to the claims of race and gender being social constructs, not based in any solid universal truths.
Bearing all of this in mind, Pharrell Williams could be said to have consistently exceeded these contradictions.
In the latest example of a countless string of… contradictions, is his recent appearance at the 5th Annual Black Ambition Demo Day, located in Miami, Florida. Given that Williams is the founder of a nonprofit called Black Ambition (in which the mission is to “(work) to close the opportunity and wealth gap through entrepreneurship,”), the following comments are proof that Williams has chosen willful ignorance regarding constructed hierarchies: “Do you want someone to support your startup because you’re Black or because you’re the best? So I think now for me, it’s about us having the best ambition, and that’s the reason why you should support these businesses. Yes, they happen to be Black and Brown, but it should be based on the thesis that they’re the best, not because of a shade of skin color.”
On politics, he says, “As we look at what’s going on, the current political climate; I’m just saying to… I don’t wanna turn anybody off, but I hate politics. Like, despise them. It’s a magic trick. It’s not real. I don’t believe in either side. ‘Cause I think when you pick a side, you are inadvertently supporting division. Yeah, it’s not a popular point of view, but I gotta say, when I think about it, the wells are drying up… Now that diversity’s off the table; now that equity’s off the table, now inclusion’s off the table. So that makes me ask myself, okay, so how do we survive?”
Getting to the short response first: While there are those who are incredibly enamored with civics (for example); i personally cannot think of anyone who likes (or even loves) politics, in the way i am discussing it here. No one likes being politicized, which is what i am truly getting at, and what many miss when discussing politics. As the saying goes, you can attempt to avoid politics, but it will always follow you. As many who were not aware are now discovering, traditionally marginalized people in particular are politicized the moment they are in public spaces.
For Williams to say that he doesn’t believe “in either side” is again, limiting politics to a particular party, or a policy, despite the connection to politics being rooted in ideological principles. An ideology is a set of beliefs which guide thoughts and actions. If you are willfully choosing to not take a position, you have thereby chosen to take the ideological position in line with those who control sociopolitical hierarchical narratives.
In terms of the “current political climate” though; you can ‘believe’ or ‘not believe’ whatever you want (just like how some don’t ‘believe’ that bisexual, trans or nonbinary people exist); however, the realities of the ultra-violent response to the increasing death of capitalism and empire (aka fascism) surpasses any belief.
It is logical that Williams’ point of view is “not a popular” one, for the very reason Black Ambition was founded. Income inequalities (based on racial hierarchies) exist. But also, gender inequality exists, ableism exists, ageism exists, language inequities exist, educational inequities exist. If you do not live in a society in which equality or equity are embedded in its very core, one’s individual success story is not going to determine success for the rest of society. Asking people if they “want someone to support your startup because you’re Black or because you’re the best?” is incredibly condescending and individualistic, especially since there are people who lost their jobs due to businesses not being able to follow tech trends or upkeep costs during the most recent pandemic lockdown. The National Bureau of Economic Research also did a report regarding African-owned businesses that were affected during the lockdown; according to the report, there was a 41% decline.
Capitalism is able to thrive because of its design to ensure only a handful of people hoard the majority of the world’s wealth and resources. Given that nothing on earth is infinite (maybe except tardigrades), the idea that anyone and everyone has the potential to amass a great amount of wealth if we work hard enough is a fallacy, when CEOs consistently exploit labor (and keep wages low) in order to ensure their net worth stays abysmally high. It is a fallacy when the stock market is volatile, and corporations base their campaigns on sociopolitical trends or pressures (in order to maintain profits), or more specifically, when corporations have a direct hand in influencing policy (via the soft power of military recruitment through Hollywood, or surveillance via social media, etc.).
The class interests of anyone who mentions the ‘divisiveness’ of publicly stating an ideological position is quite clear. Anyone who avoids ‘picking a side’ because they deem it as “inadvertently supporting division” (particularly in the face of countless human rights violations) has told you who they are. It is also disingenuous that anyone would say this, given that people ideologically ‘pick sides’ every single day of their life.
Pharrell Williams is not immune to this. In a 2024 interview with The Hollywood Reporter, he says, “I don’t do politics. In fact, I get annoyed sometimes when I see celebrities trying to tell you [who to vote for]. There are celebrities that I respect that have an opinion, but not all of them. I’m one of them people [who says], “What the heck? Shut up. Nobody asked you.” When people get out there and get self-righteous and they roll up their sleeves and shit, and they are out there walking around with a placard: “Shut up!” So, no, I would rather stay out of the way, and obviously, I’m going to vote how I’m going to vote. I care about my people and I care about the country, but I feel there’s a lot of work that needs to be done, and I’m really about the action.”
He believes himself to be “much more of a federal employee. I believe in merited civil service.” He expounds on this by saying:”Well, there are federal employees appointed by the president, right? You come in because you are loyal to a party or your leader. Then there are federal employees, this is what they do, come rain or shine, whether it’s a Democrat or a Republican in office, you show up to work every day, you serve your country. I’m more of a humanitarian. I like people trying to help people. Not sure I’ll ever vote far right. I won’t do that.
But I don’t really do politics. Some policies I lean into; I think education is important. We have a nonprofit called YELLOW [whose mission is equity through education], and then there’s another 501(c)(3) that helps Black and Brown entrepreneurs called Black Ambition — those are the things I lean into. I’m not an activist, but I believe in action. But I do believe in activists, and you need everybody.”
How exactly does one “do” politics, when politics are inescapable? It is very clear that like many, Pharrell Williams is ideologically inconsistent and at times, indecisive. If one does not take a clear/decisive position, one will definitely be made for them.
He of course, follows in the steps of another ideologically inconsistent (and currently incarcerated) celebrity, Sean Combs. Williams’ participated in Combs’ Vote Or Die campaign in 2004, which was targeted specifically towards marginalized communities. In 2012, he designed clothes for the Runway To Win campaign for Barack Obama. In 2016 he endorsed Hillary Clinton for president- for gender essentialist reasons, despite Clinton’s neoliberal, imperialist record: “It’s time for a woman to be in there; Women think about things in a holistic way, it’s not so individual.”
In 2018, Trump received a cease-and-desist letter from Williams’ camp, to stop “Happy” from being played directly after a mass shooting at Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh. As late as 2022, Williams endorsed Aaron Rouse for Virginia State Senator, adding “Virginia! Let your voice be heard, VOTE NOW,” on social media. Even more recently (in 2024), he and his wife participated in a State Visit At Elysee Palace in France, which doubled as a fashion show and was hosted by the Macrons. In February of 2025, he participated in an Artificial Intelligence Summit in France alongside JD Vance, who spoke against “excessive regulation” of AI. While UN Secretary-General António Guterres warned against overuse of unsustainable AI data centers, Williams opined that “We wouldn’t use AI to help us write a song,” and that it “wouldn’t replace creativity…You know, there was a whole thing around the year 2000 as well, but we’re fine, we survived that.” Given that outright or assisted AI songs are increasingly on digital music charts, we cannot be so sure. It is also crucial to note the connection between the building of AI data centers and their environmental, medical and economic toll on African communities.
If Pharrell Williams is emphatic in not ‘picking a side’, he certainly has not been doing a convincing job.
In one of the biggest pronouncements of “picking a side,” on the 1st of November 2018, Williams performed at the Western Region Gala of the so called Friends of The Israel Defense Forces, or the FIDF, contributing to raising $60 million for the event.
“If diversity, equity and inclusion ever comes back in style, cool. But in the mean time, I’m gonna focus on being the best because I can bank on that. Because that’s what’s gonna get you to the position.”
Pharrell Williams has told us who he was, long ago. His comments at the Black Ambition Demo Day should be of no surprise to anyone.
His statement about Diversity, Equity and Inclusion programs being akin to a trend, or “in style” is massively flippant or cavalier off the top; however, i don’t see it as being a purposefully dense one. Despite how flippant and disingenuous he may be, his class alliances are informing his perspectives; so there’s something in him that sincerely believes in what he’s saying- even if a little bit. Given that he contributed to developing a nonprofit which addresses the inequities which prompted DEI programs in the first place; he is highly aware that again, businesses plan and react according to sociopolitical trends. Capitalism has no moral compass, so the moment it didn’t have to adhere to federal procedure in ensuring diversity, larger businesses in general did not actively resist any anti-DEI executive orders. Because he recognizes how fickle trends can be, Williams resorted to the centrist position of meritocracy being the optimal factor of success.
His idealism does not match the reality of the immense saturation of say, creative fields. No matter how many people think what i do is positive; i accept that someone whose work is much more reactionary and flowery is going to do much better than any blog or piece of music i do, in terms of how many people see, hear and engage. Also as the saying goes, ‘It’s who you know.’
And as we’ve seen over time (and currently), nothing regarding human rights in the U.S. is institutionalized, given that it’s either been gutted, removed, or threatened to be removed. If any group of people have to be dependent on this government to bestow any sense of ‘freedom’, then is it freedom? As ancestor Assata Shakur said, “Nobody in the world, nobody in history, has ever gotten their freedom by appealing to the moral sense of the people who were oppressing them.”
In the same Hollywood Reporter interview he was asked, “What words can you offer to someone who’s working at McDonald’s and wants to make it but can’t see the possibilities?”; part of his response was, “If you could figure out a way that you can do a job connected to something that you love, you’ll love showing up every day. You’ll come to work early on Monday and you’ll leave late on Friday. If you can also find a way to service humanity while you’re doing that — well, now you have a dream job that you would do literally for free, but you get paid for it. You’re a part of a bigger team, and you’re doing something that is contributing to the community or your city or your state or the world. That’s the key.”
Because according to him, it is “Very simple.”
In an Ebony Magazine 2014 interview discussing the murder of Michael Brown by the state in Ferguson, Missouri that same year, it is as simple as ignoring the system that determines what crime is for the majority of those who are exploited, while those who commit the exploitation tend to generally be absolved. While he recognized there was no need for Darren Wilson to murder him; Williams added the on-brand position of, “Whatever happened in his life for him to arrive at a place where that behavior is okay. Why aren’t we talking about that?” it is very easy to admonish an individual for (allegedly) stealing an item in a store, and fighting the shop keeper. It is extremely easy to call for ‘personal responsibility’ while individualizing violence and criminal behavior, but one can be somehow oblivious to larger structures of the criminality of capitalism, which include labor exploitation, gender-based violence, colonialism and imperialism; and its outright theft of land and resources through coercive and violent means.
Being even more on brand, he followed up that he agreed with the moral posturing of Bill Cosby’s infamous thinly veiled right wing Poundcake speech- a speech that was given in 2004, on the 50th anniversary of the Brown v. Board Of Education decision. In the continuation of this trajectory, he emphasized the philosophy of being a “New Black”: In an interview with Oprah Winfrey (which you have to search a little bit deeper for, in terms of any references to this interview, as it appears to have been wiped clean), Williams says, “The ‘New Black’ doesn’t blame other races for our issues. The new Black dreams and realizes that it’s not a pigmentation; it’s a mentality. And it’s either going to work for you, or it’s going to work against you. And you’ve got to pick the side you’re going to be on.”
Well, at least he is aware that he must pick a side… unlike POLITICS.
When incendiary UK interviewer Krishnan Guru-Murthye asks him about the concept of the ‘New Black’ (in a clip which can be easily found), Williams responds (in his best Thomas Sowell impression), “My experience and being Black is that, like, I love what I do; I love who I am, and I make no excuses for what i look like, and what that means to me… I use my mind for my opportunities. i’m not looking for anyone’s help because of my skin color. i don’t see, you know, my skin color as some affliction, or something that holds me back in the world. I am proud of my skin color, and at the end of the day, anything that I do, I celebrate who I am, and I celebrate what my mom and dad made. And that is, a new way of looking at my life. But can I speak for a whole entire culture? No. I can’t.”
Given that Pharrell Williams is about two to three years older than I am; I am sure he is quite aware of what systemic racism is, even if he feels he has not been the recipient of it. Again, he contributed to creating a non-profit which aimed to address economic inequities based on said systemic injustices. I am also certain that, given the amount of expendable income he has, he’s had many an opportunity to travel enough times around the world to see that it is not only Africans who are dark in hue. This elementary interpretation of how he feels others perceive racism (solely based on skin color) is disingenuous. To insinuate that someone automatically views their hue as an “affliction” because they are addressing or have been the recipient of systemic racism is disingenuous. He claims he’s only speaking for himself, but his language was highly coded.
OJ Simpson wasn’t ‘Black’ either (according to him), but when he stopped towing the line in the way that was required of him, he was again, immediately coded as ‘Black’.
As it’s been said by many, how we identify informs largely how we interact with the world. To identify as a ‘New Black’ is a conscious expunging of addressing the collective struggles African people have experienced, whether continental or diaspora. It is a concerted focus on not reckoning with the work that still needs to be done, that our ancestors have left us to do. It is a mental cessation of the reality that the table a few of us have been ‘allowed’ to be at, was intentionally not meant for all of us. To be a ‘New Black’ you have to relinquish any significant or meaningful alliances with the masses, and perform class collaboration with the architects of exploitation.
The majority of us are not awarded the privilege of ‘transcending our race’ because again, the moment we step outside into the public, we are politicized.
What is also disingenuous about Williams’ statements is that he in particular should understand that ‘Blackness’ is not a monolith. I, like he, involved myself in things like punk rock and skateboarding: subcultures that were not traditionally seen as ‘Black’, as shortsighted as that sentiment continues to be. As a punk kid, i interacted with and navigated in the world not seeing myself as the victim he claims we should not see ourselves as. At the same time, despite me not wanting to ‘transcend my race’ i didn’t have a choice in doing so even if i wanted to, since i was made aware of it by others, pretty much every day of my life- just like he is guaranteed to be made aware of it. My experiences or interests didn’t lead me to a desire to disassociate from my people, physically, politically or ideologically; it made me want to work harder to recognize intersections of injustice, and work harder toward dismantling it all.
Post DEI (formerly known as ‘Affirmative Action’) comments fallout, Williams aimed to clarify his statements with media producer Van Lathan Jr.: “Number one, he feels like the context of where he was and what he was talking about is not being considered. Pharrell was doing a talk for a Black Ambition Initiative that he has. The intent of this initiative is to invest into Black and Brown entrepreneurship. Lots and lots of money; over $85 million to invest into DEI programs, diversity inclusion programs, and make sure that the people behind these programs get exactly what they need.
What he meant to say, and was trying to say, Pharrell told me, is that politics, which he was specifically talking about- right versus left politics. Not the overall example of what it means to be politically knowledgeable or engaged. He’s talking about how right versus left politics, and how right versus left politics typically leave people behind. It’s divisive, because it doesn’t get at the heart of an issue. It is a fight for political power. That is something that he doesn’t wanna be a part of. Well, what he wants to be a part of is empowering people to go out and live their dreams, and execute the things that they are talented in. That is one part of it. The other part of it in terms of him talking about being the best is; what he was saying is that the only thing you are going to fall back on is if in fact DEI is dismantled is how great you are, and that greatness is going to be the thing that you are going to have to invest into, in terms of yourself , if in fact there is no DEI. Which is why he has the organization that he has, is because he wants to give everybody the opportunity to be the best.”
It should be no surprise that Williams’ attempt at an explanation is not only (still) disingenuous, but also paternalistic. He continues to hold a principle that politics is solely or primarily defined under the guise of electoral politics, but also that access to money and hard work would resolve systemic injustices. He also, like many, conflates ‘left’ with ‘democrat’ or ‘liberal’. Not many folks on the left would casually hang out with warmongers and imperialists, which the most prominent of both democrat and republican politicians are. In regard to the sentiment of “right versus left politics typically leav(ing) people behind,” that is actually statistically incorrect, as there were a number of studies which took data from soft power-based World Bank, indicating that countries which model themselves more on either socialism or social democracies fare far better in terms of quality of life.
In terms of politics being “divisive,” division tends to be normalized when modes of learning are more reactionary, as opposed to responsive. When you are engaging with people who have a lack of political education and ideological assuredness- political education doesn’t always comprise of university level books either- you are going to end up with what i gather Williams is alluding to. The concept that fighting for political power is inherently negative is again, due to a dearth of political education. What were Denmark Vessey, Carlotta Lucumi and Harriet Tubman doing, if they were not fighting for political power? What were Kwame Ture, Langston Hughes or Nina Simone doing? What were George Padmore, Leila Khaled or Anna Mae Aquash doing?
As far as i am concerned, if Pharrell Williams does not want to be a part of that, he is disrespecting all of the revolutionary elders and ancestors whose shoulders he is choosing not to stand on. This is easy to see, as his focus is on individual achievement, despite saying he wants to ‘help’ people. Finally, his attempts at clarification are disingenuous since he’s literally acknowledging the necessity for equity programs because again… he recognizes that systemic inequities exist. The solution he is offering as an alternative to the potential or actual gutting of any government programs is not sustainable, because not everyone will have access to grants. Nor does he have an infinite amount of cash to dole out. The only solution would be organizing and working to have a society where no one will ultimately need grants, because everyone’s basic material needs are provided for, and people will actually be able to have space for creativity, as opposed to constantly selling their labor. For someone who emphatically is not dependent on anyone, he neglects to acknowledge there are those who are dependent on the grants he (or anyone else) has chosen to distribute.
In closing, to round out what Williams is saying, he actually does have a point, regarding politics being a magic trick. The architects of the hierarchies we live under have us believing these things are true. The ‘magic’ trick is in that these architects make things appear and disappear (be they laws or rights), based on what degree they desire to control the social order.
Given that sociopolitical/class hierarchies are illusory (as anything that is a social construct is not based in any natural/universal truth), they can also be changed, as societies shift into something more humanistic and egalitarian.